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Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

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Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#11

Post by jarym »

wjnc wrote: post #8

Dear Herr Krach, thank you for your letter. I think you misunderstand how business works. Apple is a profit seeking corporation. Profits we make, we hope to distribute to our shareholders. Paying taxes is an obligation with which we comply, both to the letter and in spirit. We meet such obligations, but not nilly-willy. Our shareholders would not look kindly upon executives who pay more taxes than necessary. Avoidanc…

Tax evasion IS illegal, tax avoidance is not. That's a legal point that's worth keeping in mind.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#12

Post by speedplane »

jarym wrote: post #5

"Such “tax optimization” – albeit legal – is only possible because specialized law firms such as Appleby devise complex company structures inaccessible to most other firms" Maybe governments should simplify their own tax rules. Then you wouldn't need specialised law firms and simpler tax systems are harder to bypass. To add, there is nothing 'moral' about tax - you have no choice but to pay what you're legally obliga…

In these situations they always say, "everything we did was legal". But the problem is that powerful individuals and companies get to make the rules. They have lobbying power and a legal budget that allows them to influence the rules themselves. They get to decide what is legal, and use the legality as a shield.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#13

Post by thomasahle »

jarym wrote: post #5

"Such “tax optimization” – albeit legal – is only possible because specialized law firms such as Appleby devise complex company structures inaccessible to most other firms" Maybe governments should simplify their own tax rules. Then you wouldn't need specialised law firms and simpler tax systems are harder to bypass. To add, there is nothing 'moral' about tax - you have no choice but to pay what you're legally obliga…

I wonder if you could prove something like Arrows theorem for taxes. Who knows if it's even possible to design a tax system, with the properties we want, without enabling cheating?

Or maybe it's only possible if all countries in the world agree on a tax code. But what are the chances of that?

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#14

Post by mrleinad »

wjnc wrote: post #8

Dear Herr Krach, thank you for your letter. I think you misunderstand how business works. Apple is a profit seeking corporation. Profits we make, we hope to distribute to our shareholders. Paying taxes is an obligation with which we comply, both to the letter and in spirit. We meet such obligations, but not nilly-willy. Our shareholders would not look kindly upon executives who pay more taxes than necessary. Avoidanc…

"Evasion of taxes is not illegal"

Yes. Yes it is.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#15

Post by blowski »

cjsuk wrote: post #2

I think we can bitch all we like and nothing will happen. International taxation is complicated and part of a multinational's business model revolves around exploiting that for shareholder gain. What this points to is that we need a new global trade and taxation agreement for handling this. But the policy makers don't want that because they benefit from it. Ergo, it'll always be like this. At best you can add additio…

People said the same about slavery. Change _is_ possible, but it requires a lot of patience.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#17

Post by jarym »

jlebrech wrote: post #10
jarym wrote: post #5

"Such “tax optimization” – albeit legal – is only possible because specialized law firms such as Appleby devise complex company structures inaccessible to most other firms" Maybe governments should simplify their own tax rules. Then you wouldn't need specialised law firms and simpler tax systems are harder to bypass. To add, there is nothing 'moral' about tax - you have no choice but to pay what you're legally obliga…

should people who make enough money to hire an accountant be punished? because i'm sure they'll avoid/reduce some taxes?

Hiring an accountant should not be a crime. Especially not while tax laws are so horrendously archaic.

However, look at countries that have flat-rate taxes [1]. They are much harder to skirt and the level compliance tends to be higher.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#18

Post by nip »

mindw0rk wrote: post #4

The point about Apple hiring best graduates who got their education mostly free of charge cause of all the tax payers really shift my mind about the whole tax-avoidance thing.

It goes both ways, the hired graduates also benefit from this relationship: a salary used to live and buy goods, and incidentally pay taxes.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#19

Post by speedplane »

jlebrech wrote: post #10
jarym wrote: post #5

"Such “tax optimization” – albeit legal – is only possible because specialized law firms such as Appleby devise complex company structures inaccessible to most other firms" Maybe governments should simplify their own tax rules. Then you wouldn't need specialised law firms and simpler tax systems are harder to bypass. To add, there is nothing 'moral' about tax - you have no choice but to pay what you're legally obliga…

should people who make enough money to hire an accountant be punished? because i'm sure they'll avoid/reduce some taxes?

If your accountant was structuring your finances so it appeared your income came from countries other than where you worked, then yes, he should probably be punished.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#20

Post by bauerd »

wjnc wrote: post #8

Dear Herr Krach, thank you for your letter. I think you misunderstand how business works. Apple is a profit seeking corporation. Profits we make, we hope to distribute to our shareholders. Paying taxes is an obligation with which we comply, both to the letter and in spirit. We meet such obligations, but not nilly-willy. Our shareholders would not look kindly upon executives who pay more taxes than necessary. Avoidanc…

I'm not sure what your argument is. Is it (a) that tax avoidance is morally justified, (b) morally justified only in the business context or (c) not of concern, because the business and the moral are two separate contexts?
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