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Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior

techcrunch.com

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Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior

#11

Post by zaptheimpaler »

nrjames wrote: post #6
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #4

I am just waiting for a lawyer for someone with Internet Addiction ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480687/ ) to sue this company over one of their supported apps. This is the kind of thing that I fear will prompt a backlash from the people and government and destroy the entire online ads regime that underpins the current Internet.

You may not have noticed that their other product is the exact opposite. Maybe that gives them some legal protection? http://youjustneedspace.com/

Thats despicable. They sell both the disease and a cure for double the money.

Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior

#12

Post by Torn »

013a wrote: post #9

The same company sells an api to help make your applications as addicting as possible [1] and a service for users to help control their addiction to applications [2]. This organization is disgusting and is evidence enough that our industry has no sense of ethical responsibility. When massive regulation lands on Silicon Valley and we whine about the impact it has on innovation, remember companies like Dopamine Labs wh…

100% agreed on the ethics note. Calling it 'dopamine' is also pretty remorseless. Interestingly, the creators of the like button and pull to refresh, and others, are pushing back against this 'attention economy': https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/05/smartphon...

Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior

#13

Post by Fricken »

Before I even got through the first paragraph I was reminded of B.F. Skinner and his book 'Beyond Freedom and Dignity', which I read in high school. So it's pretty funny that they named their AI after him. Dopamine labs may be evil, but at least they're self aware.

Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior

#14

Post by Turing_Machine »

"if a technology like Dopamine can actually encourage retention on apps aimed at self-improvement, that’s an inarguably good thing."

No, it absolutely is not. Some of most horrifying abuses in the history of the human race have occurred under the guise of "improving" other people for their own good.

Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior

#15

Post by api »

BayesStreet wrote: post #8

>Dopamine’s founders argue that they reserve the right to deny service to specific companies whose work seems to be off the level... Just "trust" us. There are obviously many teams working on doing this, but never so audacious. These things are definitely not a value add to society, yet very profitable, like e.g. heroin if that doesn't sound too hyperbolic.

A casino is usually more profitable than a hospital too.

It's probably the central problem of capitalism. Monetary systems draw no distinction between wealth creation and wealth extraction, and the second law of thermodynamics guarantees that the latter will always be much easier. When you design chips, cure diseases, or build rockets you are fighting entropy. When you addict, misinform, and con people entropy is on your side.

Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior

#17

Post by BayesStreet »

api wrote: post #15
BayesStreet wrote: post #8

>Dopamine’s founders argue that they reserve the right to deny service to specific companies whose work seems to be off the level... Just "trust" us. There are obviously many teams working on doing this, but never so audacious. These things are definitely not a value add to society, yet very profitable, like e.g. heroin if that doesn't sound too hyperbolic.

A casino is usually more profitable than a hospital too. It's probably the central problem of capitalism. Monetary systems draw no distinction between wealth creation and wealth extraction, and the second law of thermodynamics guarantees that the latter will always be much easier. When you design chips, cure diseases, or build rockets you are fighting entropy. When you addict, misinform, and con people entropy is on…

This article made me pretty sad and made me think of this too. I think what an ethical investor needs to do is not deploy capital to any industries that don't add real economic value or wealth or whatever you want to call it. Also, ethical founders should refuse capital from orgs that fund these projects. Basically starve these projects out, but that's sort of idealistic.

Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior

#18

Post by AndrewKemendo »

dontreact wrote: post #2

Even if the aims are benevolent, the naming and marketing copy just sound evil to me. They are trying to make it sound like they can turn your app into an addictive drug.

they can turn your app into an addictive drug

I think that's exactly their elevator pitch.

Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior

#19

Post by TimTheTinker »

013a wrote: post #9

The same company sells an api to help make your applications as addicting as possible [1] and a service for users to help control their addiction to applications [2]. This organization is disgusting and is evidence enough that our industry has no sense of ethical responsibility. When massive regulation lands on Silicon Valley and we whine about the impact it has on innovation, remember companies like Dopamine Labs wh…

To be fair, all the case studies they list [1] utilized their service to improve users' personal habits -- diet, exercise, etc.

Behavior shaping isn't necessarily morally wrong to use, though companies like Facebook and Google are almost completely incentivized to use them against users.

[1] http://www.usedopamine.com/assets/pdf/Dopamine%20Labs%20Case...

Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior

#20

Post by tw1010 »

Gee, the founders can't have been happy with that title (different than on HN). What can founders do to avoid being represented in a negative light like this by the press, HN? Try to be the first to frame the conversation? Or is all press good press and it doesn't matter?
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