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USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

bloomberg.com

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Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#11

Post by desireco42 »

daodedickinson wrote: post #3

"It would reject his application unless Centro proved the position required someone with specialized skills. Clark was surprised. She’d been helping people apply for visas for four years, and this was the first time she’d ever seen such a letter." Four years, and this is the first time she's seen the government even try to see if the law should be enforced. Really says it all.

Centro shouldn't need to import people, what they do can be easily found in Chicago, but they would rather not pay good wage it seems.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#12

Post by desireco42 »

mavelikara wrote: post #8
desireco42 wrote: post #4

This program was abused badly by US and Indian companies and put a number of engineers in subservient position. I will not shed a tear for those companies. For people, we should have one clear policy and apply it, if they can't come, so be it, but tell them clearly what they can get and what they cannot. And allow some transparency of the income and rates so that it can't be abused as much.

For people, we should have one clear policy and apply it, if they can't come, so be it, but tell them clearly what they can get and what they cannot. +1.

And let them travel and know the path to Green Card if they decide to stay. Otherwise then they get milked by lawyers.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#13

Post by komali2 »

Conservatives may generally view this as "good" regardless of the impact because (according to arguments I've heard) "the less globalization, the better."

In my mind, however, it boils down to two pretty simple points:

Given that (1) the US is lagging far behind every developed nation in education, and higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive compared to other developed nations, (2) the only way for the US to remain on the R&D playing field is to attract already educated/trained people from other nations with the lure of misc benefits of living in the US (culture, safety, stability, philly cheese steaks). Take away our ability to import talent and there goes the last leg of American dominance in technology.

No more American students that can compete with Chinese, Taiwanese, Japanese, or German ones, leading to less innovation in a generation. No more immigrant students making their money and starting their businesses here (or working for American R&D departments) because they can't get a visa - and possibly even worse, well-trained highly educated Americans leaving because of the obvious end-game (reduced GDP causing all sorts of ripple effects in local economies, safety, etc).

I just don't understand why we wouldn't want to make it as easy as possible to steal talent that another country invested in. We take a 23yo Chinese engineering graduate as he's going to begin peak productivity - the USA didn't have to invest in his k-12, scholarship his university, clean the water he drank for 24 years, etc. Instantaneous social profit. He joins Chevron and is turning a profit for them within the year, pumping out research and getting taxed on his 100k/year salary, spending his money in-country and oh well, maybe he sends a bit (already taxed) home.

Am I being reductive? Seems to be a very poor investment to make it harder for the highly educated to come into this country, without at the very least making a massive push for higher education across the board for our own citizens (which we are not seeing).

EDIT: To clarify my points: There are 2 ways for a country to be technologically advanced - train their own citizens, or steal other trained citizens. Have neither of those and obviously, you will fall behind.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#15

Post by jarsin »

Terr_ wrote: post #5

The particular anecdote in this article almost seems anti-convincing to me... It suggests a job that should get challenged: > For Centro, a company in Chicago that makes technology for ad agencies [...] applied for visas for three young employees who already had the legal right to work for a limited time after graduating from college. > To Clark's eyes, the position — which consisted of writing algorithms and require…

Yup cant stand journalism today. Straight up mouthpiece for the rich.

Why did they not ask the company what the wage for that position is. How many people in Chicago did they interview. Did they interview anyone over 50 who has that exact experience? Did they approach anyone currently working in similar jobs and offer them raises and other benefits to entice them over?

Truth is the Company did none of those things so the good loyal journalist won't ask those questions.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#16

Post by giobox »

mavelikara wrote: post #6

Even though Silicon Valley sees the H-1B program as one of its top political priorities, this campaign of reform by red tape has avoided the frantic political fights surrounding other aspects of immigration, like the proposed travel ban or the cancellation of DACA, a program for those who came to the country as undocumented children. This is conflating two different things - DACA and travel ban are issues related to…

Given the H1-B is a "Dual Intent" visa, it is absolutely still about immigration, the H1-B doesn't just allow for temporary workers. It provides a well worn path to a green card and permanent residency in the US too, and in my experience virtually everyone I've known to use the H1-B has done so.

The H1-B cap is surely a far more pressing concern for most technology firms than the GC backlog. The H1-B cap and delays are making it significantly harder to hire foreign workers. I don't think the big tech firms care nearly as much about GC backlogs - if anything they probably like this, as it arguably aids in staff retention if your workforce is less able to easily switch job.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#17

Post by malchow »

Two points:

1) Given that the numbers did indeed end up proving that wage arbitrageurs like Accenture were dominating the H1B lottery [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/06/us/outsourcin...], reform would seem to be necessary.

2) Trump has repeatedly called for a Canadian or Australian style skills-based immigration system to replace chain and quota-based immigration. One would think HN would generally support this?

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#18

Post by sumitgt »

pram wrote: post #10

So now they’re just doing what was supposed to have been happening the entire time? I’m having difficulty sympathizing with these companies and lawyers when all they have to do is apparently file more paperwork.

It's not like that. Most top companies do detailed paperwork. This causes other side effects and stress.

For example, you could be working at Google / Facebook earning top $$$$ every year and you paperwork could be spotless. But the stress of having to go through an uncertain renewal process every 3 years prevents you from investing in big things like buying a house or having kids. You are always worried about being able to return back to your stuff when you leave for a trip overseas.

Even though most top companies immediately apply for Green CArds, the "country of birth" based green limits ensure that you have to remain in H1-B status for 15 - 20 years (if you happen to be born in India).

TL;DR: It's not the increased vetting that we fear, its the uncertainty and complicated appeal procedures that can affect genuine H1-B cases.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#19

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

mavelikara wrote: post #6

Even though Silicon Valley sees the H-1B program as one of its top political priorities, this campaign of reform by red tape has avoided the frantic political fights surrounding other aspects of immigration, like the proposed travel ban or the cancellation of DACA, a program for those who came to the country as undocumented children. This is conflating two different things - DACA and travel ban are issues related to…

>The (skilled) immigration issue which concerns most of SV is green card backlogs. That has not gotten any attention from SV leadership.

Of course not. If workers were not held hostage by one company, and were free to go to any company they wanted without worrying about their immigration status, the companies would have to pay higher wages to keep their workers.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#20

Post by majormajor »

komali2 wrote: post #13

Conservatives may generally view this as "good" regardless of the impact because (according to arguments I've heard) "the less globalization, the better." In my mind, however, it boils down to two pretty simple points: Given that (1) the US is lagging far behind every developed nation in education, and higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive compared to other developed nations, (2) the only way for the…

The US as a whole (including non-governmental culture, employer preferences, etc) is still making a massive push for higher education, which is a big part of what's caused the arms race of ever-nicer dorms etc.

The thing to remember about US education is that it's highly different between the haves and have-nots. That's a problem in itself, but it's a giant oversimplification to jump to "US educations are generally poor." (One of the other high school and college cost-drivers/arms-race-drivers is competing to attract foreign students.)

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