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The Great College Loan Swindle

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11–20 of 118 posts

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#11
post #8

Why would it be in a university's interests to accumulate such a large amount of cash?

Because they are basically becoming hedge funds with an university attached. 'I was going to donate money to Yale. But maybe it makes more sense to mail a check directly to the hedge fund of my choice' - Malcolm Gladwell tweet https://www.thenation.com/article/universities-are-becoming-...

Do the admin and faculty staff see a share of the returns in their salaries, or are there outside investors? Or is it more about ensuring a long-term and improving ability to pay for top researchers and fund cutting edge research, raising the university's profile?

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#12
post #6

It’s interesting that the real perpetrators don’t get much of Taibbi’s scorn. The loan industry are just opportunists, and for the most part students loans have been taken over by the government anyway. The real criminals here are teachers, parents, and employers, who have created a culture where people are compelled to get completely unnecessary higher education. Here, you need a college degree to be an administrati…

Quoting the article: "Going to college doesn't guarantee a good job, far from it, but the data show that not going dooms most young people to an increasingly shallow pool of the very crappiest, lowest-paying jobs. There's a lot of stick, but not much carrot, in the education game. [...] the squeeze on the un-degreed grows tighter, increasing further that original negative incentive: Don't go to college, and you'll be standing on soup lines by age 25. "

The article itself explains why teachers and parents and students themselves still seek degree - because alternative is nothing good either.

It is competitions and if you dont compete, you loose for sure.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#13
The lead of this article is very hyperbolic. Even if a person competely defaults and allows default judgement against them, the maximum allowed penalty is a garnishment of 15% of income after tax. On a salary of $18,000 that would be at most $2,700 or $225 a month. That will be a never ending payment, but it's hardly time to go seppuku.

Aside from the hyperbole, I do think the article has a fair point. And there's a very simple solution. Align the interests of lenders with borrowers. There are a lot of ways to do this. One would be to enable borrowers to declare bankruptcy meaning lenders would not be throwing money around like beads at Mardis Gras.

Another option is to change the terms of students loans to be as special as their permanence is. Require student loans be paid back in terms of x% of income for the x% of years after graduation. This would heavily incentivize loan agencies into ensuring a college education does actually lead to a good job. The reduction in lending would also reduce the cost of education as a whole. As the article mentions, the bloating in tuition and other rates is mostly just a factor of greed. If you offer a product valued as practically priceless, and a consumer's available income is x then your price is going to approach x. 'Mardi gras lenders' push x higher and higher to no end.

Ultimately there are lots of solutions. But I expect we'll do nothing. As the 15% I mentioned above gaurantees that even 'bad loans' are good, from the perspective of a lender. Even if somebody gets stuck working in aggregate $30k jobs (inflation adjusted) for the next 50 years, that's $1.5 million with 15% there equaling out to $225k. That's an extremely healthy profit even on defaults. To New Orleans we go!

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#14
post #6

It’s interesting that the real perpetrators don’t get much of Taibbi’s scorn. The loan industry are just opportunists, and for the most part students loans have been taken over by the government anyway. The real criminals here are teachers, parents, and employers, who have created a culture where people are compelled to get completely unnecessary higher education. Here, you need a college degree to be an administrati…

I mean, the loan industry still does deserve scorn when they make loans that hurt society rather than help. They should at least strive to focus their efforts on deals where everybody wins, especially when the taxpayer is the one who foots the bill when they lose.

I do agree that our education system is the most at fault, though I would make administrators as criminals before teachers. Administrators are the ones who continually spend their schools' funds on pretty buildings, sports teams, and raising their own salaries. That money could be used to develop better educational methodologies, raise teacher salaries (in the case of K-12 where viable STEM professionals would be taking a giant pay cut compared to industry), and improve the quality/quantity of resources that students really need to succeed (not a new football stadium).

Parents and employers are typically reacting to this environment, not generating it. Employers require more education due to the failures of K-12 and some universities. Parents try to recognize what their kids will need to get a fulfilling career (we hope), though they may lack the understanding to do so effectively.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#15
Most scorn of universities and loan programs never seem to address a serious problem: Students taking on debt to fund degrees with little market value, or few job prospects. Racking up $100k to get an interdisciplinary degree in women and gender studies might sound awesome, but not at the cost of a school like NYU.[0] I think schools should be required to press upon students prior to taking out these loans honest and factual statistics about their future job prospects, needs for advanced education, and the average graduates ability to pay back the loan.

[0]. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/05/29/your-money/student-loa...

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#16
post #6

It’s interesting that the real perpetrators don’t get much of Taibbi’s scorn. The loan industry are just opportunists, and for the most part students loans have been taken over by the government anyway. The real criminals here are teachers, parents, and employers, who have created a culture where people are compelled to get completely unnecessary higher education. Here, you need a college degree to be an administrati…

And another way of looking at things is this problem would not exist if the government did not pass special rules that affect student loans, and only student loans.

I think there are lots of sources of failure that lead up to the problem, but the vast majority are of good intentions. It's not hard to see why the government decided to create special rules. It enabled lenders to all but completely ensure profit on loans meaning that anybody would have access to university, regardless of financial background. And that's a good thing.

Parents and teachers are also acting with good intentions. I would fully recommend college to anybody. I would certainly recommend move to Europe for it now a days, but the value of an education is immense. Access to the resources (physical, personnel, and intangible) of a campus is something that can open up vast new possibilities for an individual. And being around a more competitive group of individuals than you'd experience in high school can help ensure people stand a better chance of reaching their full potential.

And then there are employers. Today in the US it's somewhat paradoxical that we have a genuinely low unemployment rate yet also most decent job offers get more resumes than employers can handle. All other things being equal, a person with a college background is going to be more desirable than somebody without one. So why not require it and cut those CVs down to a more manageable size?

Perhaps the only people acting in bad faith are lenders. But like you mentioned they're just opportunists. And cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug. They're not exploiting anybody. They're providing equal access to education for everybody in mutually beneficial agreements. At least that's what they'll convince themselves of.

What I'm getting at here is that trying to point fingers at one person or another isn't really productive. Who cares who's fault it is? There's a problem that needs fixing is all that matters.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#17

The lead of this article is very hyperbolic. Even if a person competely defaults and allows default judgement against them, the maximum allowed penalty is a garnishment of 15% of income after tax. On a salary of $18,000 that would be at most $2,700 or $225 a month. That will be a never ending payment, but it's hardly time to go seppuku. Aside from the hyperbole, I do think the article has a fair point. And there's a…

Default would tank your credit score and possibly jepordize future job, housing, and banking opportunities. Even if it's brutal, I think it's better to avoid default if at all possible.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#18

As the price of college he lists the sticker price, not the price after whatever deal is worked out (it is often quite significantly less). But that is a nit. It is a very real, very big, problem. A country needs an educated work force. But the vultures have turned that need into pure profit, at a great cost to people just trying to have a good life.

> As the price of college he lists the sticker price, not the price after whatever deal is worked out (it is often quite significantly less). I’m not sure to which “deals” you are referring. When I went to college I paid the sticker price for tuition and then some (for housing, books, administrative fees, etc.). I feel like this is another harmful myth that scholarships and grants significantly lower the cost of coll…

Are you sure you didn't have a $500 something in there, so they could claim 95% receive financial aid? I did.

Of course sticker price takes into account that they're granting virtually everyone $500. This was the game in the early 90's; I'm sure it has grown since then.

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