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On Unread Books

theparisreview.org

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Re: On Unread Books

#11

Post by padraic7a »

everyone wrote: post #8
Santosh83 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything we produce needs to be valued by how much they contribute to industrial/scientific civilization. I specify that because loss of much of STEM won't lead to collapse of civilization, it will only set us back to the dark ages. We'll begin again. Same as we'd do if all art disappeared.

Its not the same. If all existing art disappeared we would still be able to produce art at our current rate with no discernible or measurable difference in its quality or effect. Scientific or technological progress on the other hand is iterative. More advanced theories are slowly formulated on the backs of older ones. For precision tools for example you need to start off building crude tools with nothing, then use t…

"Its not the same. If all existing art disappeared we would still be able to produce art at our current rate with no discernible or measurable difference in its quality or effect."

That's a very strange idea.

If all existing novels dissappeared do you think we would produce novels straight away?

If all painting dissappeared would we paint with perspective, or in abstract, or just go for rough cave type paintings?

How long would it take us to come up with rhyming metre, or the observational essay, cinema or stand-up?

You think we'd start from having no references and create this immediately?

Re: On Unread Books

#12

Post by sanderjd »

everyone wrote: post #6

Imo a lot of literature has 0 novel content, so this is not suprising. Additional: I'm always shitting on the humanities in the comments here. I dont have anything against them, I both produce them and consume massive quantities of them. My point is simply that they are trivial. If all art suddenly disappeared it wouldnt really matter. If knowledge about, and/or the fruits of STEM stuff disappeared it would be a huge…

> If all art suddenly disappeared it wouldnt really matter.

Ugh. This is so arrogant.

Take a step back, talk to some people outside this bubble, of different ages, from different parts of the world, and not just on the internet. Get a sense for how they want to live their lives, for what's important to them. Then come back to this opinion you hold so strongly and question it honestly.

Re: On Unread Books

#13

Post by wallacoloo »

everyone wrote: post #6

Imo a lot of literature has 0 novel content, so this is not suprising. Additional: I'm always shitting on the humanities in the comments here. I dont have anything against them, I both produce them and consume massive quantities of them. My point is simply that they are trivial. If all art suddenly disappeared it wouldnt really matter. If knowledge about, and/or the fruits of STEM stuff disappeared it would be a huge…

I'm surprised I haven't heard this point of view before. In the past I've often thought that the amount of value I get from enjoying the humanities is _completely_ disproportionate to the amount I pay for them. The majority of my leisure time is spent consuming art. But if I told someone that I spend $1000/yr purchasing music, they would likely be a little surprised. At the very least I would be an outlier. But I can relate to the other point of view that there is a _lot_ of other work being done today that enables the humanities to be enjoyed in the first place, so maybe valuing the direct product of the humanities at only $500-$1000/yr isn't _that_ far away from their true value.

I'm still not entirely convinced, but it's true that if the sharing of art vanished, I would find other ways to fill the gap without a huge amount of trouble (thought likely a large chunk of that would be me creating art for myself)

Re: On Unread Books

#14

Post by sanderjd »

gallerdude wrote: post #4

I've felt a very small version of this in watching certain movies. When I saw Stand By Me , I understood Stranger Things and Super 8 a lot more.

For sure, context can have a multiplicative effect on the value of a text. This article seems to be arguing that context is the value itself, which doesn't quite ring true to me.

Re: On Unread Books

#15

Post by 13of40 »

everyone wrote: post #6

Imo a lot of literature has 0 novel content, so this is not suprising. Additional: I'm always shitting on the humanities in the comments here. I dont have anything against them, I both produce them and consume massive quantities of them. My point is simply that they are trivial. If all art suddenly disappeared it wouldnt really matter. If knowledge about, and/or the fruits of STEM stuff disappeared it would be a huge…

Inasmuch as cable TV is art, it would cause riots.

Re: On Unread Books

#16

Post by lj3 »

everyone wrote: post #6

Imo a lot of literature has 0 novel content, so this is not suprising. Additional: I'm always shitting on the humanities in the comments here. I dont have anything against them, I both produce them and consume massive quantities of them. My point is simply that they are trivial. If all art suddenly disappeared it wouldnt really matter. If knowledge about, and/or the fruits of STEM stuff disappeared it would be a huge…

Arts aren't just entertainment. They're a reflection of the soul of a culture and exist long after that culture is dead. If you look at every culture ever recorded in human history, you'll note there is a direct correlation between a culture's progression in art and a culture's progression in science and technology.

That said, I agree with you that most written literature has very little to offer most people. Most pieces of literature bear that designation because they are "teachable" in one form or another. Some are chosen because they perfect one very specific aspect of the craft of writing. Others, like Finnegan's Wake, are like P vs NP in that they provide an infinitely complex problem for intelligent minds to spend lifetimes chewing on without ever reaching a conclusion.

Something else to keep in mind: the medium is the message. The medium a piece of art chooses is significant. TV and movies will rot your brain regardless of whether it's The Big Bang Theory or Citizen Kane. Reading will improve your brain, regardless of whether you're reading Danielle Steel or Chaucer.

Re: On Unread Books

#17

Post by cyberpunk0 »

everyone wrote: post #6

Imo a lot of literature has 0 novel content, so this is not suprising. Additional: I'm always shitting on the humanities in the comments here. I dont have anything against them, I both produce them and consume massive quantities of them. My point is simply that they are trivial. If all art suddenly disappeared it wouldnt really matter. If knowledge about, and/or the fruits of STEM stuff disappeared it would be a huge…

Need less STEM power, need more STEA(rt)M power ;)

Re: On Unread Books

#18

Post by svat »

When I saw the title here, I immediately thought of the 2007 book How To Talk About Books You Haven't Read by Pierre Bayard. And when I opened the article, I find that it is indeed a review/summary of that book, by Umberto Eco… which I guess goes to show something or the other.

Bayard's book is a masterpiece; I found it hilarious and recommended it to a friend, who has taken to it so much he buys copies for others and often uses “Bayardian” as an adjective. All the stuff surrounding the book only add to its enjoyment (after you've read it), such as the fact that there was a question mark in the original title which went away in the translation, the author's coy refusal to say whether he was serious or joking, and his insistence in interviews that the opinions in the book are not his own but that of a fictionalized persona…

I think I found this book because it was highly rated on the interesting complete review site (its review of this book is here: http://www.complete-review.com/reviews/books/bayardp.htm). Not everyone is likely to enjoy this book (some found it pointless), but worth taking a look.

Re: On Unread Books

#19

Post by Chiba-City »

everyone wrote: post #6

Imo a lot of literature has 0 novel content, so this is not suprising. Additional: I'm always shitting on the humanities in the comments here. I dont have anything against them, I both produce them and consume massive quantities of them. My point is simply that they are trivial. If all art suddenly disappeared it wouldnt really matter. If knowledge about, and/or the fruits of STEM stuff disappeared it would be a huge…

Donald Norman in "Things That Make Us Smart" points out distinguishing between education and entertainment is not impossible but difficult. Artworks are performance outputs like proofs or designs. Then there are material sciences of their realizations and reproductions. We heroize the lone artist but artworks are social "supply chain" creations. For whatever reasons, outside the weekly pop charts for advertising attentions, we rearrange shelves of old and new artworks we consider exemplary in some regard. Kids study the outcomes and techniques both and keep remaking the present. The fictional novel, moving picture fiction "talkie" and lyric 3 minute tune are very specific genres. I imagine there are folks here who might credibly argue specific computers games are exemplary artworks worthy of study and emulation. "Humanities" along with many other of our departmental labels is not such a great term of art.

Re: On Unread Books

#20

Post by everyone »

sanderjd wrote: post #12
everyone wrote: post #6

Imo a lot of literature has 0 novel content, so this is not suprising. Additional: I'm always shitting on the humanities in the comments here. I dont have anything against them, I both produce them and consume massive quantities of them. My point is simply that they are trivial. If all art suddenly disappeared it wouldnt really matter. If knowledge about, and/or the fruits of STEM stuff disappeared it would be a huge…

> If all art suddenly disappeared it wouldnt really matter. Ugh. This is so arrogant. Take a step back, talk to some people outside this bubble, of different ages, from different parts of the world, and not just on the internet. Get a sense for how they want to live their lives, for what's important to them. Then come back to this opinion you hold so strongly and question it honestly.

What bubble? Please do tell. I hope you're not arrogantly making assumptions about me.

If all art disappeared, sure almost everyone on the planet would be initially upset and unhappy about it. But we'd just continue to make more, humans make art compulsively and instinctively. Eg. In archaeology the signs of art are often equated with the presence of modern humans. Scientific discovery on the other hand does not come naturally, one must subvert ones natural common sense and intuition and use tools like math and the scientific method. Every discovery is hard fought. Also art has no endgame, with enough science and technology we could create AI, the technological singularity, explore the galaxy, achieve literal immortality. With the best art and the happiest people it would all still certainly be erased by the sun going nova, or even just by a medium sized asteroid.

ps. Heres another one..What if all art more than 50 years old disappeared? Most people mightnt even care or notice.

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