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China’s AI Awakening

technologyreview.com

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Re: China’s AI Awakening

#11

Post by paulfitz »

idibidiart wrote: post #8
kercker wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give some examples of these interesting work?

The one posted yesterday from OpenAI. Hierarchical learning. Also, DeepMind's relational NN. I can dig up others from memor after caffiene. DeepMind is at Google which is a Silicon Valley co. True about Canada, but salaries in Canada do not support retention of talent, so most end up in SV in the long run or get acquired by SV companies.

(DeepMind is part of the Alphabet group, true, but is based in London, with some research people in Canada and some applied people in California.)

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#12

Post by chronicy292 »

abhinavkulkarni wrote: post #5
idibidiart wrote: post #2

Thb, most of the interesting work I've seen has come out of Silicon Valley. What breakthroughs have come from China?

Most 'breakthroughs' in AI have come from Canada, not Silicon Valley.

Then why do all the AI folks and startups in Toronto et al. dream of moving to silicon valley with the outrageous rent and home prices?

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#13

Post by exelius »

idibidiart wrote: post #9
exelius wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of the interesting work is done by Chinese nationals, many of whom feel the startup field in the US is slanted towards white people, so they go back to China and take their knowledge with them. US research institutes are top-notch, but our casual racism and xenophobia are killing us. Not that the Chinese aren't also racist and xenophobic, but the pendulum of power is definitely swinging back across the Pacific.

That is a good point but China is a dictatorship and a censoring anti-democracy regime. I can't imagine putting up with that either.

Chinese culture values harmony and stability over individualism and total freedom. The actions of the individual glorify the group; and they view "dictators" as more of a "father-like figurehead". They look at the US and see the problems we have (crime, gun control, health care, etc) and can point to their own society and say "well, we solved all of those so our system is better."

Many young Chinese who were educated in the US feel this way, so it's not a generational thing. This is a cultural tradition stretching back many thousands of years. The world view of a person from China is very different than that of an American.

Also, consider that an AI researcher returning to China is likely going to be in the top 1% of society. Dictatorial societies tend to be pretty good for the people at the top. The Chinese startup market is hotter than the US at this point too; and it's basically restricted to people born in a handful of Chinese cities. The Chinese government intentionally stacks the deck to get them to return.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#14

Post by shadowmint »

Extremely relevant quote from the talented Mr Ng:

> “When the Chinese government announces a plan like this, it has significant implications for the country and the economy,” says Andrew Ng, a prominent AI expert who previously oversaw AI technology and strategy at China’s biggest online search company, Baidu. “It’s a very strong signal to everyone that things will happen.”

ie. There is going to be a tonne of money poured into this.

Will it make a difference, tangibly to economic transformation? Who knows...

...but anyone sitting here scoffing that China can’t make itself a world leader in a field by simply pouring money and support onto the problem needs a serious history lesson.

They have before, and there is every indiction they will again, here with this.

More interesting: will it be as transformative as everyone is hoping?

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#15

Post by tw1010 »

exelius wrote: post #7
idibidiart wrote: post #2

Thb, most of the interesting work I've seen has come out of Silicon Valley. What breakthroughs have come from China?

Much of the interesting work is done by Chinese nationals, many of whom feel the startup field in the US is slanted towards white people, so they go back to China and take their knowledge with them. US research institutes are top-notch, but our casual racism and xenophobia are killing us. Not that the Chinese aren't also racist and xenophobic, but the pendulum of power is definitely swinging back across the Pacific.

I live in a country outside the US (not China) but every time people from the US talk about us they have this same story, which seems to come from US news sources, which is nowhere close to what is actually going on. That makes me wonder, is the same thing going on for China? I keep hearing on HN this same story "China is anti-democratic and anti-innovation, nothing interesting goes on there". But how much of that is actual truth, backed by facts, and how much is just the same story propogated amongst the population, but rarely double checked?

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#16

Post by it_learnses »

Scientists like Ng ought to consider the repercussions of their actions when they decide to aid Chinese companies, and by extension, the Chinese govt with cutting edge research. They are basically collaborating with the enemy that stands against pretty much everything that the west granted them (scientists like Ng who were born here and given the opportunities).

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#17

Post by coldtea »

idibidiart wrote: post #2

Thb, most of the interesting work I've seen has come out of Silicon Valley. What breakthroughs have come from China?

>Thb, most of the interesting work I've seen has come out of Silicon Valley.

Like, social websites and apps?

>What breakthroughs have come from China?

Like tons of actual innovations in hardware, screens, storage, materials science, manufacturing methods, robotics, biology, and other fields?

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#18

Post by monkmartinez »

shadowmint wrote: post #14

Extremely relevant quote from the talented Mr Ng: > “When the Chinese government announces a plan like this, it has significant implications for the country and the economy,” says Andrew Ng, a prominent AI expert who previously oversaw AI technology and strategy at China’s biggest online search company, Baidu. “It’s a very strong signal to everyone that things will happen.” ie. There is going to be a tonne of money p…

> ...but anyone sitting here scoffing that China can’t make itself a world leader in a field by simply pouring money and support onto the problem needs a serious history lesson. They have before, and there is every indiction they will again, here with this.

What are they currently leading?

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#19

Post by nopinsight »

Key competitive advantages of China are their strength in quantitative skills, a huge population, and the hard working and competitive culture of the populace.

An objective measure is PISA results [1]. When comparing with even the best performing US state, Massachusetts, China has many more top performers in Math, as a proportion of population [2].

(In 2015 only four provinces of China participated, but their combined population was 230 million vs Massachusetts's 6.8 million. The math result of Shanghai (24 million pop.) alone would show an even larger gap.)

Since PISA results are scaled such that OECD country's mean is 500 and standard deviation is 100, China's 531 math score implies country mean at 0.3 SD above PISA mean, and US' math score at 470 implies 0.3 SD below mean. If people capable of doing AI research or proper AI implementation need to have math skills at, say, 2 SD above PISA mean, then there will be a tremendous difference in proportion between two populations with 0.6 SD difference.

My back-of-the-envelope calculation, assuming above figures, is the proportion will be about five times as large. But China has more than 4 times the population of the US, so the difference in potential numbers of AI-capable natives could be around 20 times. (Since other provinces may drag down China's mean, it could be a bit less. An opposite influence is increasing wealth and thus more resources devoted to education, both by parents and the state. We'll see soon since China as a whole will participate in PISA 2018.)

Moreover, the Chinese government is pushing AI and programming education into their education system, starting from the primary level [3].

The distinct advantage of the US is that it is the magnet for top talents and ambitious people from all over the world, including the Chinese, so it might continue to lead for a while. However, if the US becomes inhospitable to talents or potential talents, it is clear that China with its quality and quantity of human resources will soon take the lead.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_St...

[2] http://www.compareyourcountry.org/pisa/country/usa1?lg=en

[3] http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0828/c90000-9261282.html

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