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Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

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Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#11

Post by ashark »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #8
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #2

Almost the only people doing well in rural America are those with generational wealth. I know plenty of people from my small hometown that have been doing okay with their farms. One of them has a gravel business. Those without such luck are either moving to a bigger city or experiencing a declining quality of life, and they're coping with drugs, meth mostly. I can't imagine what that would be like in areas that haven…

This is true and is hardly limited to the Old South. Rural Upstate New York is effectively in the same boat. Frankly I think trying to develop rural America to be economically competitive to urban America is a bad idea wrapped in the cloak of a well-meaning idea. Infrastructure and services and much (like 2-5x) more expensive over a wide area. And you need a LOT of infrastrucute to reasonably support a professional c…

Can confirm that from the perspective of a Midwesterner who grew up largely in smaller towns, one grows up feeling that moving to a major coastal city is nearly impossible. Even as a software developer I have to remind myself that no, really, I could move to one of those places. It's a hard mindset to get out of, and for most, it's also kind of true.

Smaller non-coastal cities retain, in the mind of the typical rural midwesterner, a reputation for high crime and violent racial unrest (among those old enough to remember the 60s and 70s, anyway). The former especially isn't entirely undeserved. And anyway, even those are shockingly expensive by rural standards, unless you want to live in the very worst parts of the city where the concerns of high crime and terrible, dangerous schools are especially valid.

To say that moving to the city, for most values of "the city", isn't broadly appealing to the rural set, is accurate.

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#12

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

latencyloser wrote: post #4
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #2

Almost the only people doing well in rural America are those with generational wealth. I know plenty of people from my small hometown that have been doing okay with their farms. One of them has a gravel business. Those without such luck are either moving to a bigger city or experiencing a declining quality of life, and they're coping with drugs, meth mostly. I can't imagine what that would be like in areas that haven…

Would remote work help? I would think encouraging or allowing more 'white-collar' workers to be more spread out throughout the country would help increase demand in places other than large cities and tech hubs. I, for one, miss rural life (wide open space, less traffic, mom and pop stores, etc.) but unfortunately my career as a programmer doesn't cater to that lifestyle all that well.

Let's say you have a reasonably well-paying remote job and you could live anywhere. Let's also say you're married and have children. Do you want them to go to good schools? Do you want them to receive quality healthcare that does not break the bank? Do you want to use convenient services like Uber/Lyft when the need arises? Do you want access to a network of professionals that can help you grow your career?

If you answered yes to these questions, you're not going to find many places rural America that satisfy your needs. At best you'll end up in an outer-exurbia like greater Atlanta.

I don't think remote work of a few well-paid professionals is a viable and sustainable solution for rural America.

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#13

Post by kylehotchkiss »

latencyloser wrote: post #4
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #2

Almost the only people doing well in rural America are those with generational wealth. I know plenty of people from my small hometown that have been doing okay with their farms. One of them has a gravel business. Those without such luck are either moving to a bigger city or experiencing a declining quality of life, and they're coping with drugs, meth mostly. I can't imagine what that would be like in areas that haven…

Would remote work help? I would think encouraging or allowing more 'white-collar' workers to be more spread out throughout the country would help increase demand in places other than large cities and tech hubs. I, for one, miss rural life (wide open space, less traffic, mom and pop stores, etc.) but unfortunately my career as a programmer doesn't cater to that lifestyle all that well.

I spent 4 years at my tech job in rural Virginia. Internet there was faster, cheaper, and more reliable than it has been in San Diego, where I am now. I had lots of friends there, it was always fun to enjoy the outdoors with them.

So it can help, but you eventually feel like a fish out of water when nearly nobody you know understands what it is you do. I feel like we'll get there one day in the USA, paying under $1000 for rent for a comfortable home is a lifestyle I wish i could see more technical people adopt.

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#14

Post by ashark »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #12
latencyloser wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would remote work help? I would think encouraging or allowing more 'white-collar' workers to be more spread out throughout the country would help increase demand in places other than large cities and tech hubs. I, for one, miss rural life (wide open space, less traffic, mom and pop stores, etc.) but unfortunately my career as a programmer doesn't cater to that lifestyle all that well.

Let's say you have a reasonably well-paying remote job and you could live anywhere. Let's also say you're married and have children. Do you want them to go to good schools? Do you want them to receive quality healthcare that does not break the bank? Do you want to use convenient services like Uber/Lyft when the need arises? Do you want access to a network of professionals that can help you grow your career? If you an…

I'd probably pick a smallish (sub-250k population) city, I think. The kind that rural folks mean when they say they're going to The City to shop. Maybe a "university town". Beats exurbs or ultra-pricey real cities. The trick is finding one small enough that you aren't stuck with shitty schools if you want to live in the city core.

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#15

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

ashark wrote: post #14
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you have a reasonably well-paying remote job and you could live anywhere. Let's also say you're married and have children. Do you want them to go to good schools? Do you want them to receive quality healthcare that does not break the bank? Do you want to use convenient services like Uber/Lyft when the need arises? Do you want access to a network of professionals that can help you grow your career? If you an…

I'd probably pick a smallish (sub-250k population) city, I think. The kind that rural folks mean when they say they're going to The City to shop. Maybe a "university town". Beats exurbs or ultra-pricey real cities. The trick is finding one small enough that you aren't stuck with shitty schools if you want to live in the city core.

Well that often tends to be the case. Most college towns, even little ones, are so much more expensive than the countryside.

Here in Ithaca NY, the property market (relative to income) is ungodly expensive, because most people either bought their houses decades ago when they were affordable, or they're college students who will pay any price in rent to get their quality education.

Some people commute in from as far away as Syracuse or even Pennsylvania. Property prices are much more affordable 15 minutes drive in any direction, but no college professor or staff would want their kids going to any of the crackerjack rural schools.

Can't say I speak for the Midwest, so it could be different there.

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#16

Post by eropple »

ashark wrote: post #14
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you have a reasonably well-paying remote job and you could live anywhere. Let's also say you're married and have children. Do you want them to go to good schools? Do you want them to receive quality healthcare that does not break the bank? Do you want to use convenient services like Uber/Lyft when the need arises? Do you want access to a network of professionals that can help you grow your career? If you an…

I'd probably pick a smallish (sub-250k population) city, I think. The kind that rural folks mean when they say they're going to The City to shop. Maybe a "university town". Beats exurbs or ultra-pricey real cities. The trick is finding one small enough that you aren't stuck with shitty schools if you want to live in the city core.

That's part of it. The other part is transit. Cars are bad; I don't really want to ever own one again and I definitely don't want to have to drive one every day if I do. So anywhere I'd want to move would need to either be super walkable or have transit. And small cities usually, IME, aren't the first and don't have the second.

I live in a 50K-population city adjoining Boston, so they exist, I just don't know how well they exist independent of bigger cities.

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#17

Post by ashark »

eropple wrote: post #16
ashark wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd probably pick a smallish (sub-250k population) city, I think. The kind that rural folks mean when they say they're going to The City to shop. Maybe a "university town". Beats exurbs or ultra-pricey real cities. The trick is finding one small enough that you aren't stuck with shitty schools if you want to live in the city core.

That's part of it. The other part is transit. Cars are bad; I don't really want to ever own one again and I definitely don't want to have to drive one every day if I do. So anywhere I'd want to move would need to either be super walkable or have transit. And small cities usually, IME, aren't the first and don't have the second. I live in a 50K-population city adjoining Boston, so they exist, I just don't know how wel…

Inexpensive, 100%-no-car-required, and decent schools is... a tough set of requirements to satisfy in the US. Hell, getting any two of those is an accomplishment.

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#18

Post by occultist_throw »

Ive always taken an unpopular view about slavery.

"We never quit doing slavery."

It is true the Constitution was amended after the Civil war to include banning of slavery in most circumstances. However, slavery is explicitly still allowed as a "punishment for a crime". Instead of "Black = Slave", it's "Black = criminal , criminal = slave". After all, it only takes only 6-12 angry white men to find you guilty.

I would think one of the major points BLM should be making, is removal of slavery as a punishment. It has too many very degenerate ways it can fail - and in some ways I think were very intended. But I doubt in this political climate of this happening.

EDIT: Boy, I said it was an unpopular view. Wasn't expecting this much hatred and contention, along with this much -1's. I mean, it's not like the 13th amendment explicitly says.

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#19

Post by megaman22 »

QAPereo wrote: post #6
latencyloser wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would remote work help? I would think encouraging or allowing more 'white-collar' workers to be more spread out throughout the country would help increase demand in places other than large cities and tech hubs. I, for one, miss rural life (wide open space, less traffic, mom and pop stores, etc.) but unfortunately my career as a programmer doesn't cater to that lifestyle all that well.

A few generations of really focused, quality education would help a lot more. Until then, I'm afraid it's a bit of a mess.

It'll be a bit of a mess in any case. In a lot of rural school districts, you've got better than half of the students on free-and-reduced lunches, and often upwards of a quarter or a third of the students on IEPs. I grew up in such a place, my mother still teaches in that district.

You really need to fix the basic underlying economic issues, so that you don't have kids coming to school hungry, and you don't have the best and brightest of the community fleeing so they can find work.

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#20

Post by thriftwy »

It's interesting to consider how having fertile soil reliably gets you.

You would imagine it is a good thing until you realize it's a guaranteed case of Dutch disease, one that is reliant on having a lot of indentured labour around.

And then it will stop being profitable and demand subsidies.

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