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How do you grow willpower?

scottberkun.com

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Re: How do you grow willpower?

#11

Post by [deleted] »

timr wrote: post #10
timr wrote: post #8

"I refuse to grant credibility to anyone using a study to support an argument without a reference. If the study was published I can read it myself and see what it actually says." Red Herring. There are widely-known tools to look up research articles, and it's not conventional to cite such articles in newspapers because the journals are not easily accessible to the general public. I wonder how many other things he ref…

Ugh. Then he follows his straw man with an over-generalization and appeal to ridicule: "anyone with above average willpower has a busy enough life not to have time to participate in psychological surveys" and an appeal to personal belief (which also happens to be biased, and begs the original question): "I think I possess above average powers of will, but I would never test them against things I thought were pointles…

[deleted]

Re: How do you grow willpower?

#12

Post by xlnt »

timr wrote: post #8

"I refuse to grant credibility to anyone using a study to support an argument without a reference. If the study was published I can read it myself and see what it actually says." Red Herring. There are widely-known tools to look up research articles, and it's not conventional to cite such articles in newspapers because the journals are not easily accessible to the general public. I wonder how many other things he ref…

fwiw, in my experience, when i read the papers, they suck. (have not read the article, not defending the guy, just commenting on papers)

Re: How do you grow willpower?

#13

Post by mynameishere »

timr wrote: post #10
timr wrote: post #8

"I refuse to grant credibility to anyone using a study to support an argument without a reference. If the study was published I can read it myself and see what it actually says." Red Herring. There are widely-known tools to look up research articles, and it's not conventional to cite such articles in newspapers because the journals are not easily accessible to the general public. I wonder how many other things he ref…

Ugh. Then he follows his straw man with an over-generalization and appeal to ridicule: "anyone with above average willpower has a busy enough life not to have time to participate in psychological surveys" and an appeal to personal belief (which also happens to be biased, and begs the original question): "I think I possess above average powers of will, but I would never test them against things I thought were pointles…

That first point has merit. Studies and surveys in general always pretend to be dealing with random samples, but that's never the case.

Re: How do you grow willpower?

#14

Post by timr »

xlnt wrote: post #12
timr wrote: post #8

"I refuse to grant credibility to anyone using a study to support an argument without a reference. If the study was published I can read it myself and see what it actually says." Red Herring. There are widely-known tools to look up research articles, and it's not conventional to cite such articles in newspapers because the journals are not easily accessible to the general public. I wonder how many other things he ref…

fwiw, in my experience, when i read the papers, they suck. (have not read the article, not defending the guy, just commenting on papers)

For all I know, it's the worst paper in the world; that's not the point.

This guy rejected the credibility of the newspaper article (and hence, the reporter), because s/he didn't cite a research paper.

Re: How do you grow willpower?

#15

Post by timr »

mynameishere wrote: post #13
timr wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. Then he follows his straw man with an over-generalization and appeal to ridicule: "anyone with above average willpower has a busy enough life not to have time to participate in psychological surveys" and an appeal to personal belief (which also happens to be biased, and begs the original question): "I think I possess above average powers of will, but I would never test them against things I thought were pointles…

That first point has merit. Studies and surveys in general always pretend to be dealing with random samples, but that's never the case.

You're committing to the same fallacy. I don't care what "studies in general" do -- I care what this study did.

Same goes for your use of the words "always" and "never" -- given that sample bias is a well-known scientific phenomenon, you're going to have to provide extraordinary evidence to convince me that studies "always" make the mistake...that's a rather extraordinary claim.

Re: How do you grow willpower?

#16

Post by mynameishere »

timr wrote: post #15
mynameishere wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That first point has merit. Studies and surveys in general always pretend to be dealing with random samples, but that's never the case.

You're committing to the same fallacy. I don't care what "studies in general" do -- I care what this study did. Same goes for your use of the words "always" and "never" -- given that sample bias is a well-known scientific phenomenon, you're going to have to provide extraordinary evidence to convince me that studies "always" make the mistake...that's a rather extraordinary claim.

C'mon. If I say, "Okay, here's my random sample", and it's a self-selected group, you know immediately it's not a random sample. Whether or not this matters has much to do with whether we are testing physiological or pyschological criteria.

Re: How do you grow willpower?

#17

Post by timr »

mynameishere wrote: post #16
timr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're committing to the same fallacy. I don't care what "studies in general" do -- I care what this study did. Same goes for your use of the words "always" and "never" -- given that sample bias is a well-known scientific phenomenon, you're going to have to provide extraordinary evidence to convince me that studies "always" make the mistake...that's a rather extraordinary claim.

C'mon. If I say, "Okay, here's my random sample", and it's a self-selected group, you know immediately it's not a random sample. Whether or not this matters has much to do with whether we are testing physiological or pyschological criteria.

C'mon nothing:

A) I don't know if the study authors claimed that they used a "random sample" (not all experiments require it).

B) Even if it wasn't a "random sample", unless the selection bias was correlated with the trait under study, it's highly unlikely to matter.

C) All of this is window dressing. The point is, Berkun's argument was overly general ("Anyone with..."), and based on ridicule of the experiment, without actually knowing anything about the experiment (by his own admission!)

If Berkun knew the details of the experiment, and was pointing out a methodological flaw, he'd be making an argument. Instead, he's speaking from the comfort of ignorance, attacking a study based on second-hand information and his own personal biases.

Re: How do you grow willpower?

#18

Post by euccastro »

LPTS wrote: post #6

They actually have a lot of the pieces out there but unconnected. I will answer the question. Willpower is an equilibrium between two distinct drives, one of which is a drive to act, and one of which is an inhibitory drive. The first step to growing willpower is to make sure your lack of willpower isn't caused by a biological problem or a mental health problem. Before struggling too long to grow willpower, have a phy…

[...] the left and right prefrontal cortexs (corti?) [...]

Cortices.

Very interesting comment! I find it slightly paradoxical that I associate Buddhist meditation with a passive attitude of just accepting the present and suppressing earthly desire, yet according to what you say, that activity actually improves one's ability to persist in the active pursuit of one's desires. Not a true contradiction, of course: both are instances of suppressing immediate desires in favor of more significant, delayed ones.

Besides any long term neurological benefits, I read once or twice that meditation and relaxation have an immediate effect of helping relieve the stress that lies at the root of most cases of procrastination.

Re: How do you grow willpower?

#19

Post by euccastro »

sabat wrote: post #7

Don't try. Instead, find a way to want the thing. Really want it. No tricks; they don't work. You can't pretend passion (and sustain it).

Even if you want the thing, some of the stuff you need to do to get the thing may be less immediately rewarding than other stuff you could be doing instead. Even if you consciously know it's worth it in the end, there are subconscious forces within us that are not as far seeing.

So you need willpower to get past some local lows. Without it, you'd have to restrict yourself to goals that can be accomplished with only constant enjoyment along the way. That leaves out many worthy goals, and most opportunities to create value.

Re: How do you grow willpower?

#20

Post by xlnt »

timr wrote: post #14
xlnt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fwiw, in my experience, when i read the papers, they suck. (have not read the article, not defending the guy, just commenting on papers)

For all I know, it's the worst paper in the world; that's not the point. This guy rejected the credibility of the newspaper article (and hence, the reporter), because s/he didn't cite a research paper.

I didn't say that was the point, nor say anything to indicate I didn't get the point (so no need to repeat it).

Do you know why people take things personally just because they are the parent post, even if the content doesn't criticize them?

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