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Citron thinks Shopify is like Herbalife

citronresearch.com

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Re: Citron thinks Shopify is like Herbalife

#11

Post by rtkwe »

madamelic wrote: post #7

This is beyond grasping at straws. Shopify performs a service, Herbalife does not. Shopify recruits people, Herbalife sells inventory. I don't see Shopify asking for upfront payments from their affiliates. Not to mention the fact that a successful Shopify store relies on skill at SEO, social media and picking the right products. Herbalife relies on being early enough in the "reverse funnel" and having a lot of people…

There's one overlap where there might be a bit of tooth is in the possible revenue claims which seems like a big portion of what Herbalife actually got hit for it seems, though I'm not really familiar with the exact details of the FTC's findings in the Herbalife case.

Other than that though there's very little relation between the two Shopify really doesn't sound like a pyramid scheme even from this page.

Re: Citron thinks Shopify is like Herbalife

#12

Post by nailer »

madamelic wrote: post #7

This is beyond grasping at straws. Shopify performs a service, Herbalife does not. Shopify recruits people, Herbalife sells inventory. I don't see Shopify asking for upfront payments from their affiliates. Not to mention the fact that a successful Shopify store relies on skill at SEO, social media and picking the right products. Herbalife relies on being early enough in the "reverse funnel" and having a lot of people…

The article explicitly lists many more similarities listed than that. 'Quit your job for Shopify', claims about how the platform makes people millionaires in days with people sitting in Ferraris. I like Shopify from what I've seen at tech events but that's some very sketchy marketing.

Re: Citron thinks Shopify is like Herbalife

#13

Post by giarc »

eli wrote: post #5

But aren't the vast majority of Shopify users selling products (not recruiting other users to Shopify)?

Exactly. I believe Shopify has an affiliate program (like just about every other platform) but it's not pushed like MLM. The main goal of majority of shopify users is to sell their product, not to sign up their friends.

Re: Citron thinks Shopify is like Herbalife

#14

Post by save_ferris »

> Google search shopify and millionaire and you'll see 27k results. Then go to Youtube and enter shopify and millionaire and you'll see 10k results.

Funny, I just searched "google ads millionaire" and it returned 6M results, as well as 30k from Youtube. By Citron's logic, Google is also like Herbalife.

Now, he might have a case if Shopify and Google generated these pieces of content themselves, but he makes no attempt to discover where the content originates.

Re: Citron thinks Shopify is like Herbalife

#15

Post by giarc »

nailer wrote: post #12
madamelic wrote: post #7

This is beyond grasping at straws. Shopify performs a service, Herbalife does not. Shopify recruits people, Herbalife sells inventory. I don't see Shopify asking for upfront payments from their affiliates. Not to mention the fact that a successful Shopify store relies on skill at SEO, social media and picking the right products. Herbalife relies on being early enough in the "reverse funnel" and having a lot of people…

The article explicitly lists many more similarities listed than that. 'Quit your job for Shopify', claims about how the platform makes people millionaires in days with people sitting in Ferraris. I like Shopify from what I've seen at tech events but that's some very sketchy marketing.

Shopify Digest is their newsletter.

Here are the topics I have received for a store recently (I'm sure it's targeted).

-Protect your reputation using social media

-Lifelong learnings for entrepreneurs

-Get the perfect photo

-6 Bulletproof ways to improve conversions

-How to track your marketing campaign

If I look at a few months of emails, there is only 1 that is "make millions type" and it's titled "How two entrepreneurs generated $91,470 in 3 months"[1] and it's an interview with the store owners. I don't see anything wrong with that.

https://www.shopify.com/blog/14917217-how-two-ecommerce-entr...

The sketchy marketing I see for Shopify (FBA, dropshipping) is from users who are selling a course they made.

Re: Citron thinks Shopify is like Herbalife

#16

Post by 0x4f3759df »

rtkwe wrote: post #11
madamelic wrote: post #7

This is beyond grasping at straws. Shopify performs a service, Herbalife does not. Shopify recruits people, Herbalife sells inventory. I don't see Shopify asking for upfront payments from their affiliates. Not to mention the fact that a successful Shopify store relies on skill at SEO, social media and picking the right products. Herbalife relies on being early enough in the "reverse funnel" and having a lot of people…

There's one overlap where there might be a bit of tooth is in the possible revenue claims which seems like a big portion of what Herbalife actually got hit for it seems, though I'm not really familiar with the exact details of the FTC's findings in the Herbalife case. Other than that though there's very little relation between the two Shopify really doesn't sound like a pyramid scheme even from this page.

If you're in the mood for a documentary 'Betting on Zero' is pretty good. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3762912/

Re: Citron thinks Shopify is like Herbalife

#17

Post by ChuckMcM »

save_ferris wrote: post #14

> Google search shopify and millionaire and you'll see 27k results. Then go to Youtube and enter shopify and millionaire and you'll see 10k results. Funny, I just searched "google ads millionaire" and it returned 6M results, as well as 30k from Youtube. By Citron's logic, Google is also like Herbalife. Now, he might have a case if Shopify and Google generated these pieces of content themselves, but he makes no attemp…

I wouldn't disagree with that comparison :-)

Back when I was working at Google there clearly was tension between people who were promoting the AdSense platform and Google's desire to have more inventory. Much of it seemed to fall into the "we didn't tell them to do this, they just came up with it on their own."

At the time (2006 - 2008 or so) the "deal" was person A would get a partner ID and they would resell Google ads through their partner ID to shops that they recruited. It was so bad that after I had left Google and joined Blekko the easiest web spam page to detect was the same AdSense ID across more than a handful of domains. The ranking team de-indexed every site where the AdSense ID appeared on more than 50 different URLs and it pruned a very significant chunk of the index of 'web spam'.

The only point I'm trying to make is that when your platform makes money on a per-use basis, whether its transactions or page views, there are people who will use that to create affiliate type businesses.

Re: Citron thinks Shopify is like Herbalife

#18

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

madamelic wrote: post #7

This is beyond grasping at straws. Shopify performs a service, Herbalife does not. Shopify recruits people, Herbalife sells inventory. I don't see Shopify asking for upfront payments from their affiliates. Not to mention the fact that a successful Shopify store relies on skill at SEO, social media and picking the right products. Herbalife relies on being early enough in the "reverse funnel" and having a lot of people…

What? They're basically the same thing. Herbalife sets you up with a way to be a solo salesman, just like Shopify. Both sell inventory.[0] (Note: Shopify acquired Oberlo in May)

>Not to mention the fact that a successful Shopify store relies on skill at SEO, social media and picking the right products. Herbalife relies on being early enough in the "reverse funnel" and having a lot of people downstream (not skill).

Silly! Don't you know that Herbalife relies on skill at salesmanship, networking and picking the right products.[1] Shopify on the other hand relies on you being early enough in the "reverse funnel" and having a lot of people downstream.

The crash-and-burn charts Citron links to are also pretty damning. This seems almost exactly like Herbalife from where I'm sitting.

[0] https://www.shopify.com/oberlo

[1] http://products.herbalife.com/product_catalog

Re: Citron thinks Shopify is like Herbalife

#20

Post by i_are_smart »

reiichiroh wrote: post #3

Are these the losers who underestimated the fandom of the Ubquiti networking owners?

They are (1), and although that did hurt Ubiquiti's stock price nothing else ever came of it. I have no idea why anyone listens to these guys.

[1] http://www.citronresearch.com/citron-exposes-ubiquiti-networ...

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