Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

travel.usatoday.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 145 posts

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#11

Post by rdtsc »

jim_h wrote: post #5

That's one way to make NYC even less affordable and friendly to tourists on a budget. I've met some very interesting and friendly people in 'short-term apartments'. Mostly foreign students/travelers on vacation, people moving to NYC for work and using it as temporary housing until they find a real place, or just regular Americans visiting another city on a budget. They make it seem like these places are unclean or un…

> That's one way to make NYC even less affordable and friendly to tourists on a budget.

But that is a valid concern I suppose -- does NYC benefit from tourists on a budget? If it doesn't then it might make sense to keep them out so tourists "not on a budget" can have more space, visit more often, and consequently spend more money.

I can see how tourists on a budget would not be welcome in many cities. Some places rely on selling overpriced services and items to tourists and rely on tourists coming in and just throwing money around. So making legislation to accommodate certain visitors, but discourage others, kind of makes sense.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#13

Post by fmora »

The first time I read about something like this I was outraged. "How dare they, the government is blocking people's ability to do business". Then, after some careful thought I started to agree with this ban. Basically I put myself in the shoes of a resident next to a building being used as an illegal hotel. The people do not have the proper permits. Obviously they are not licensed. The fact that there is always new people coming and going in what is supposed to be a residential area can cause problems. And I say this as a resident of NYC. Living here I never realized that it was so expensive to visit NYC. Sorry to be cynical but I guess it sucks to be you if you want to visit NYC and are broke.

Notice that the person doing this illegal business is the only one benefiting from it. The community will not get any of the taxes that it is supposed to get which are in turn used to maintain the streets, pick the trash, pay police officers patrolling the area, etc. etc. Essentially, the community is paying for an illegal business.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#14

Post by whakojacko »

Lots of people seem to be thinking that all the big hotel chains are being evil by lobbing this kind of anti-competitive legislature out to kill airbnb and the like. And while that maybe be true, you also have to realize that governments would much rather prefer people stay in real hotels regardless of what the hotel industry thinks. Local governments get a lot of money off of occupancy taxes, as well as tax off of the employment of those in the service industries. How many airbnb hosts in NYC are paying occupancy taxes? What about reporting income? My guess: not too many. And this is completely ignoring zoning regulations that these self-serve hotels trample upon.

Im going to guess that these laws will become more prevalent soon unless airbnb & co start become proactive about keeping track of all the relevant taxation.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#15

Post by nphase »

I was in NYC with my team this past Jan, trying to raise money with a few angels in the area. The three of us decided to rent a furnished apartment to save money. I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of space this decision afforded. There was plenty of desk space in the unit and while there weren't enough beds for each of us the couches made due just fine.

The landlord explained that they were having trouble leasing the apartment, and that they were falling back on relying on this sort of rental to help cover the cost of the space. It's a shame this won't be an option in the future, both for poor entrepreneurs and landlords.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#17

Post by shykes »

fmora wrote: post #13

The first time I read about something like this I was outraged. "How dare they, the government is blocking people's ability to do business". Then, after some careful thought I started to agree with this ban. Basically I put myself in the shoes of a resident next to a building being used as an illegal hotel. The people do not have the proper permits. Obviously they are not licensed. The fact that there is always new p…

You are missing one important point: most people affected by this ban are individuals, renting out one room at a time, maybe two. I have a hard time believing this generates any kind of noticeable "coming and going".

In fact, tolerating the rental of a single room per household strikes me as a good way of separating the wheat from the chaff.

Ironically, even Cuba has such an exception: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casa_particular

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#18

Post by ccamrobertson »

rdtsc wrote: post #11
jim_h wrote: post #5

That's one way to make NYC even less affordable and friendly to tourists on a budget. I've met some very interesting and friendly people in 'short-term apartments'. Mostly foreign students/travelers on vacation, people moving to NYC for work and using it as temporary housing until they find a real place, or just regular Americans visiting another city on a budget. They make it seem like these places are unclean or un…

> That's one way to make NYC even less affordable and friendly to tourists on a budget. But that is a valid concern I suppose -- does NYC benefit from tourists on a budget? If it doesn't then it might make sense to keep them out so tourists "not on a budget" can have more space, visit more often, and consequently spend more money. I can see how tourists on a budget would not be welcome in many cities. Some places rel…

does NYC benefit from tourists on a budget

Any tourists will bring tax revenues into the city by eating at restaurants, visiting museums and events and generally purchasing goods and services.

"not on a budget" can have more space, visit more often, and consequently spend more money.

If any place in the world operated purely under this assumption, then you would never have urban centers like New York to begin with. Consider that if the demand for hotels was so high that there was no longer enough rooms for tourists that more hotels would be built.

Some places rely on selling overpriced services and items to tourists and rely on tourists coming in and just throwing money around. So making legislation to accommodate certain visitors, but discourage others, kind of makes sense.

It really makes sense for hotel firms, who are likely the ones behind the vast lobbying efforts that helped to implement this law in the first place. They are the ones who stand to garner the extra revenues to be had from tourists who no longer have the option to AirBnB and must instead pay for high priced hotels.

The only way in which this should improve New York's revenues as a government entity is through the room taxes assessed on hotels as opposed to AirBnB-style operations.

This problem, however, could have been remedied without outright outlawing of the practice which seems to infringe on the rights of many property owners who AirBnB in a reasonable fashion (i.e. not purpose built illegal hotels).

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#19

Post by nphase »

fmora wrote: post #13

The first time I read about something like this I was outraged. "How dare they, the government is blocking people's ability to do business". Then, after some careful thought I started to agree with this ban. Basically I put myself in the shoes of a resident next to a building being used as an illegal hotel. The people do not have the proper permits. Obviously they are not licensed. The fact that there is always new p…

I have no idea what the breakdown of tax allocation looks like in NYC/NY state, but I'm not sure your last statement is correct. I assume the person doing this illegal business is still paying property tax and state income tax? If not, then that's a problem with the IRS, not a housing authority.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#20

Post by fmora »

nphase wrote: post #19
fmora wrote: post #13

The first time I read about something like this I was outraged. "How dare they, the government is blocking people's ability to do business". Then, after some careful thought I started to agree with this ban. Basically I put myself in the shoes of a resident next to a building being used as an illegal hotel. The people do not have the proper permits. Obviously they are not licensed. The fact that there is always new p…

I have no idea what the breakdown of tax allocation looks like in NYC/NY state, but I'm not sure your last statement is correct. I assume the person doing this illegal business is still paying property tax and state income tax? If not, then that's a problem with the IRS, not a housing authority.

The tax for a residential building and for a hotel are not the same.
Post reply on HN