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Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

nytimes.com

11–20 of 74 posts

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#11
post #2

The thing with obedience (which is disgustingly praised by quite some HN commenters, maybe even not just astroturfers) is that it leaves zero territory to live your actual life. Which then will create people living completely double lives, the obedient shell one and the other one .

Furthermore, those who would demand obedience because they lack substance aren't living a life either. That is, if living a life was sitting on a porch, they're in the swamps running from their past, without even knowing a porch exists.

It's a really shitty thing to be dragged into the swamp by someone who is lost in it. But to acknowledge it's just this shitty thing, nothing more, like cancer or falling down the stairs, that just hurt and diminished you for no good reason and for no real good outcome, which kept you from what is rightfully yours -- yourself -- that is step one. It's painful and can be paralyzingly scary, yet if people could see how scarier what they're regressing into is, how it's just a dead end filled with pain, in comparison to the soundness waiting beyond that small scary threshold, they'd take it in a heartbeat.

Unfortunately, my first reaction to someone wanting to "sell" me abuse or obedience is anger. But it really should be compassion.. obedient and authoritarian people deserve better. Abused and abusive people deserve better. FWIW I didn't think much of China when I wrote this; people break in the same dozens of ways all over the world and all through history it seems. But compassion and giving it just one inch are still orthogonal, you have to balance between the feelings of those who are fucked up, and those they would hurt by virtue of being so.

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#12

Why is Nytimes so concerned about China while failing completely to put the spotlight on the burgeoning surveillance culture at home? Who is going to talk about draconian surveillance, secret courts, secret orders, gag orders and government officials empowered to violate your dignity and privacy by searching your phone and personal effects. Why is Snowden still in Russia? Are we to pretend all this is not happening?…

Maybe it's related to why you felt the need to use a throwaway account to post your comment.

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#13
post #2

The thing with obedience (which is disgustingly praised by quite some HN commenters, maybe even not just astroturfers) is that it leaves zero territory to live your actual life. Which then will create people living completely double lives, the obedient shell one and the other one .

You mean "obedience" in general or "obedience to the current Chinese government"?

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#14
post #13
post #2

The thing with obedience (which is disgustingly praised by quite some HN commenters, maybe even not just astroturfers) is that it leaves zero territory to live your actual life. Which then will create people living completely double lives, the obedient shell one and the other one .

You mean "obedience" in general or "obedience to the current Chinese government"?

In general, when somebody asks for your obedience and you comply, they proceed with adding conditions.

First it's "no outright porn" then "no naming of private parts" then "no blurring of line between good and evil".

You can imagine their conditions as an area, and your meaningful life as an area, and the Venn diagram of those two stops intersecting. You can't write "Crime and Punishment" without blurring line between good and evil. You can't write about any problems you are having. So now you are writing something banal, bland and unconvincing (as most of communist art is)

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#15

Why is Nytimes so concerned about China while failing completely to put the spotlight on the burgeoning surveillance culture at home? Who is going to talk about draconian surveillance, secret courts, secret orders, gag orders and government officials empowered to violate your dignity and privacy by searching your phone and personal effects. Why is Snowden still in Russia? Are we to pretend all this is not happening?…

OBJECTION: Whataboutist Fallacy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

In addition, making a claim from a fresh anonymous account conveys the message that you do not actually stand behind it, giving it zero credence.

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#16
post #11
post #2

The thing with obedience (which is disgustingly praised by quite some HN commenters, maybe even not just astroturfers) is that it leaves zero territory to live your actual life. Which then will create people living completely double lives, the obedient shell one and the other one .

Furthermore, those who would demand obedience because they lack substance aren't living a life either. That is, if living a life was sitting on a porch, they're in the swamps running from their past, without even knowing a porch exists. It's a really shitty thing to be dragged into the swamp by someone who is lost in it. But to acknowledge it's just this shitty thing, nothing more, like cancer or falling down the sta…

I'm not sure wtf you just said, but I'm pretty sure I agree with it?

Note to people who work in tech: If you are abetting the thought police in China, you are ethically just as bad as they are. Act accordingly. Resist authoritarianism everywhere it appears and don't think for even a second that if you are a good leftist that the other "good leftists" (there is no such thing in reality) will spare your life. It always goes bad and then the mass murders begin.

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#17

I don't understand. == Stereotyping alert == At least in Malaysia and Singapore, even though there are a lot of Chinese (but not China national), "China girls" (from China) carries negative connotation. The reason is, many of them work in brothels, dodgy massage parlors, etc (you get the idea), and they're also known to "steal people's husbands" and being "gold diggers". In China itself, it's "common" for rich people…

People are going to be people, regardless of what a government does.

Those behaviours can be associated with a certain socio-cultural origin, but on the list of reasons I'd say "internet censorship" is down the list

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#18
post #12

Why is Nytimes so concerned about China while failing completely to put the spotlight on the burgeoning surveillance culture at home? Who is going to talk about draconian surveillance, secret courts, secret orders, gag orders and government officials empowered to violate your dignity and privacy by searching your phone and personal effects. Why is Snowden still in Russia? Are we to pretend all this is not happening?…

Maybe it's related to why you felt the need to use a throwaway account to post your comment.

Because HN is actively policing "dangerous viewpoints" as well? Things are further down the rabbit hole than you may perceive you know.

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#20
post #3

Every time an article that is politically critical of one of US's rivals is posted on HN, there is a lot of incoming comments about how US is just as bad. Which is perfectly reasonable and commendable - most HN readers live in US, and a good citizen is more concerned with problems in his own country than elsewhere. But it makes me wonder, what kind of justifications will this article get.

> a good citizen is more concerned with problems in his own country than elsewhere. In practical terms it's hard to be personally concerned equally as much about what happens in every country on earth, but as a matter of principle I think what happens to people is just as important regardless of where they are. And in our globalised world, what happens in one country, especially a major country, can have implications…

Yes, there is definitely a "monkey sphere" phenomenon going on, but when a couple billion people still live behind the Iron Curtain and US media abets the crime, you have to wonder. I despise Google and all the other western corporations for not upholding western standards of openness and dialog--along with the scientific method, it is all that humanity has to move forward with.
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