Live data from Hacker News

The sad state of voice support in cellular modems

laforge.gnumonks.org

11–20 of 22 posts

Re: The sad state of voice support in cellular modems

#11
post #8

I have recently bought Huawei USB modem and discovered that these things run Linux with Android. This is pretty off-putting. With such a modem it is no longer enough to keep your system & drivers up to date, because the device has it's own full-blown operating system. An attacker no longer needs to hack your machine to capture your traffic or make you a part of a botnet, it can hack your modem. And the modem, like An…

how is that a different threat profile than your router or any other IoT you may own?

Re: The sad state of voice support in cellular modems

#12
post #11
post #8

I have recently bought Huawei USB modem and discovered that these things run Linux with Android. This is pretty off-putting. With such a modem it is no longer enough to keep your system & drivers up to date, because the device has it's own full-blown operating system. An attacker no longer needs to hack your machine to capture your traffic or make you a part of a botnet, it can hack your modem. And the modem, like An…

how is that a different threat profile than your router or any other IoT you may own?

For one, it's connected directly via USB and can impersonate other device types...

Re: The sad state of voice support in cellular modems

#13
post #6
post #3

Would VoLTE make the situation better, since voice is sent as data?

From my experience with cellular chipsets, no. The voice channel is exposed the same way on the chip, it’s just sent differently over the network. The “bad thing” about VoLTE additionally for ultra small embedded applications is that it requires two antennas.

The diversity antenna requirement is a carrier one, not a technical one. You can get waivers if it makes sense for your application.

Re: The sad state of voice support in cellular modems

#15

One correction: Modems in phones are not normally LGA modules, but rather components soldered directly to the main board. Sometimes the baseband processor and protocol stack are even integrated in the main processor SoC. Systems that use the LGA or m.2 modules often don't use the audio at all, so nobody has cared to make a nice interface.

I stumbled over that as well at first when reading the article, but then realized that it was likely talking about modem modules for computers, not phones.

Re: The sad state of voice support in cellular modems

#16
post #11
post #8

I have recently bought Huawei USB modem and discovered that these things run Linux with Android. This is pretty off-putting. With such a modem it is no longer enough to keep your system & drivers up to date, because the device has it's own full-blown operating system. An attacker no longer needs to hack your machine to capture your traffic or make you a part of a botnet, it can hack your modem. And the modem, like An…

how is that a different threat profile than your router or any other IoT you may own?

There is a large selection of routers or general purpose devices that can be used as routers (for example Rasberry Pi) on which you can easily run standard Linux distributions. You can configure such distribution to install software updates automatically and have a quite secure setup for years.

With these USB modems, although they run Linux & Android, the images are of course proprietary and you fully rely on Huawei for security patches. The patches also don't install automatically, you need to check for them, download and install by yourself.

Most IoT devices have the same problem, so I personally avoid buying them, although they can work behind your home firewall, which can protect against many remote attacks. GSM modem is your gateway to the internet, so you can't put a firewall at front of it.

Re: The sad state of voice support in cellular modems

#17
Do cellular modems really "need" to do audio any more? I don't mean because everyone could just be using data-only SIMs with OTT SIP software. I mean, instead: sure, audio is part of the cellular standards—but why is it part of the cellular baseband hardware? Phones aren't made in a way where the baseband chip "is" the phone any more. The modem is now a tiny part of the processing power of even the dumbest of dumbphones.

So, given this, why can't the standards require that the modem expect there to be some other chip (e.g. the SoC in a smartphone; a specialized DSP on a dumbphone; a ground resistor on a mobile data stick) to feed the modem audio packets which have been pre-encoded and serialized to the format it would have done itself, so it can just take them, wrap them in baseband frames, and directly put them on the wire?

In other words, why is the (DAC + GSM/G.722/etc. DSP + ser/des) logic a feature of cellular modems, rather than a feature of phones?

Think about it by analogy: you wouldn't expect a PSTN modem to come with a feature where a computer can make analogue telephone calls using it by hooking it up directly to your microphone and speakers. You'd expect that, if it did any such thing, it'd be by DMAing pre-encoded-for-the-wire packets out of a realtime ring buffer, the same way any network card consumes any other packet. Maybe your sound-card would provide hardware support for some codecs (by consuming one DMA ring and producing another. Or maybe you'd do the audio encoding on your GPU with a GPGPU shader, allowing your phone to speak new voice codecs with just a firmware update.

Re: The sad state of voice support in cellular modems

#18
post #13
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience with cellular chipsets, no. The voice channel is exposed the same way on the chip, it’s just sent differently over the network. The “bad thing” about VoLTE additionally for ultra small embedded applications is that it requires two antennas.

The diversity antenna requirement is a carrier one, not a technical one. You can get waivers if it makes sense for your application.

Do you have a source for that info? Every chip manufacturer (3 of top 4) and carrier (every US carrier) I’ve talked to said different.

Re: The sad state of voice support in cellular modems

#19
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The diversity antenna requirement is a carrier one, not a technical one. You can get waivers if it makes sense for your application.

Do you have a source for that info? Every chip manufacturer (3 of top 4) and carrier (every US carrier) I’ve talked to said different.

You'd be looking at Category 1 LTE, which is LTE without the MIMO. Some Category 1 modules are starting to support VoLTE. This stuff is relatively new, which might explain the answers you've got if it has been awhile since you've asked. It's still strongly recommended that Category 1 devices use a receive diversity antenna, but they work without it. Less robust, obviously.

Re: The sad state of voice support in cellular modems

#20
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for that info? Every chip manufacturer (3 of top 4) and carrier (every US carrier) I’ve talked to said different.

You'd be looking at Category 1 LTE, which is LTE without the MIMO. Some Category 1 modules are starting to support VoLTE. This stuff is relatively new, which might explain the answers you've got if it has been awhile since you've asked. It's still strongly recommended that Category 1 devices use a receive diversity antenna, but they work without it. Less robust, obviously.

Ah! Cat1 modules aren’t actually shipping yet with VoLTE in volume. Manufacturers are sampling them, but as of June weren’t shipping yet. Expected by year end last I heard. Maybe you have better sourcing, but that info makes more sense now. I’d love to pick your brain more, if you’re up for it, my contact info is in my profile.
Post reply on HN