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Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#11

Post by pjc50 »

spodek wrote: post #4

> in school, Jordanian girls are crushing their male peers When males outperform females, everyone concludes the system is biased and we should remove the bias. When females outperform males, they say things like "This is baffling on the most obvious levels." Maybe the educational system is biased, favoring how girls learn and behave. Is it hard for people to imagine that systems can benefit girls at the expense of b…

The article points out that there are effectively two school systems - it's entirely gender-segregated - and the boy's system is disadvantaging them.

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#12

Post by adamnemecek »

romanovcode wrote: post #10
adamnemecek wrote: post #2

Maybe it’s a good time to talk about the fact that school is largely a waste of time. And that it’s not about being smart but how well do you listen and follow orders. Like it’s insane what sort of garbage I had to waste time on and whenever I brought this up, it was brushed away with “get used to it” or “I don’t like it either but that’s how things are”. Not to promote gender stereotypes and what not but I wonder if…

> And that it’s not about being smart but how well do you listen and follow orders. Do you realise that not all people are smart, and for those who aren't - this is the way to go.

Is it tho? And even if it is, why is the system setup for them and not me? But I’m also not convinced that this is the way to go even for “not smart” people. But to some extent I also believe that he idea of being smart or not is given too much emphasis. Like if you go at your own pace, you’ll get there when you get there. A guide pushing you and telling you to go faster isn’t going to help you.

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#13

Post by iliketosleep »

adamnemecek wrote: post #5
Mayzie wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Education is important, the idea of school in the current format is outdated and retarded. However this is unlikely to change since students have very little power to change things. What would you do differently?

The idea of a person chewing things for you is stupid. People should go at their pace. I’ve found that out of the six plus hours that you spend in school, only a small fraction is spent productively. So much is wasted on administrative matters. I also found the switching between subjects to be really annoying. Like what if I want to spend half a day a week on the single subject as oppposed to an hour every day. Conte…

Very interesting point about the context switching. When I was a student I didn't consider such matters, but as an adult I recognise needless context switching as an enormous inefficiency. You're point about only needing a teacher when you get stuck is quite valid as well, especially in the age of high tech. Presentation of the information should be optimized and presented via recording. The duty of the teacher should be to facilitate learning by helping out where there are any problems. But with all the politics and tradition, the status-quo isn't about to change unfortunately. The upside is that there is room for huge improvement, hence opportunities exist.

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#14

Post by noxToken »

adamnemecek wrote: post #5
Mayzie wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Education is important, the idea of school in the current format is outdated and retarded. However this is unlikely to change since students have very little power to change things. What would you do differently?

The idea of a person chewing things for you is stupid. People should go at their pace. I’ve found that out of the six plus hours that you spend in school, only a small fraction is spent productively. So much is wasted on administrative matters. I also found the switching between subjects to be really annoying. Like what if I want to spend half a day a week on the single subject as oppposed to an hour every day. Conte…

> I want a desk and a textbook. I need a teacher only when I get stuck.

Kudos to you for being a self-starter, but that barely described me. I have the ability to learn on my own, but if I didn't have an instructor yammering at me, then I was much more likely to spend the time in an unproductive manner.

I didn't have Wolfram|Alpha when I was in high school. TI-8x was my cheatsheet iff I knew how to get it to tell me what I wanted. If W|A had been a thing alongside self-study, I don't think I would have retained any information. I was a knucklehead. I figured that if I was doing the bare minimum to get an 'A' or a 'B', then I was doing it right. College was a rude awakening in that regard.

I do think that the US education system needs a bit of an overhaul. I don't think we have the manpower nor the funding to do it though. Public schools don't let students run at their own pace, because that would require a higher administrative burden than what schools already have. Technology has come a long way though. Digital lessons, the Internet, communication tools, grading tools, etc. have positioned us such that it would be much, much easier to implement these types of curricula. But that's still an uphill battle.

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#15

Post by gm-conspiracy »

adamnemecek wrote: post #12
romanovcode wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And that it’s not about being smart but how well do you listen and follow orders. Do you realise that not all people are smart, and for those who aren't - this is the way to go.

Is it tho? And even if it is, why is the system setup for them and not me? But I’m also not convinced that this is the way to go even for “not smart” people. But to some extent I also believe that he idea of being smart or not is given too much emphasis. Like if you go at your own pace, you’ll get there when you get there. A guide pushing you and telling you to go faster isn’t going to help you.

There are many more of "them" than you.

They need their bread and circuses, otherwise, they will come pillage your property.

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#16

Post by tyingq »

croon wrote: post #6
spodek wrote: post #4

> in school, Jordanian girls are crushing their male peers When males outperform females, everyone concludes the system is biased and we should remove the bias. When females outperform males, they say things like "This is baffling on the most obvious levels." Maybe the educational system is biased, favoring how girls learn and behave. Is it hard for people to imagine that systems can benefit girls at the expense of b…

> When males outperform females, everyone concludes the system is biased and we should remove the bias. > When females outperform males, they say things like "This is baffling on the most obvious levels." You point out hypocrisy, but follow it up with an equal but opposite? > Maybe the educational system is biased, favoring how girls learn and behave. Is it hard for people to imagine that systems can benefit girls at…

>Can it not be that this instead proves that systems can be and are biased, in both directions?

I believe that's the point GP was making. Where does it imply otherwise?

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#17

Post by twic »

IanDrake wrote: post #8

An American friend of mine worked at a private school there. She said that boys are being raised to be pampered with the expectation in life that they will not need to provide for their family through work and that women are basically slaves. This was a school of upper class kids and, to me, the attitude I would expect for children of tyrants.

I've heard similar reports, second-hand, from a teacher in the UAE: the current generation of young men anticipate a life of effortless luxury, and so don't see the point in working hard in school. They point out that this is also why there's a high level of childhood obesity:

https://www.khaleejtimes.com/news/uae-health/posh-lifestyle-...

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#18

Post by Overtonwindow »

I think this sentence is quite telling: "The separation of students, teachers, and administrators into single-sex public schools may serve cultural and religious purposes, but it seems to create an unintentional ghetto for boys...."

I think single-sex education is the answer here because for girls, it allows them to flourish and grow without the male-dominated Middle Eastern oppression. Girls can grow and learn in an environment that is more free, and open for them. I would be curious to see if this is true in other parts of the world that allow for single-sex education.

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#19

Post by Bulkington »

pjc50 wrote: post #9

The answer seems to be "toxic masculinity". (Since I had to clarify this last time: the term refers to expressions or expectations of masculinity and masculine behaviour that are toxic, not a claim that masculinity is toxic in and of itself.) > For one thing, boys’ schools are more violent places, concluded the study > Boys also reported worse relationships with their male teachers > male teachers were three times as…

Would women's significantly superior graduation rates to men's in NCAA basketball qualify as 'toxic masculinity'? Or benign disinterest? Not that disinterest can't be toxic...

http://nebula.wsimg.com/63037e2d226dc6cdac787a498f2ddaf6?Acc...

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#20

Post by dominotw »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #18

I think this sentence is quite telling: "The separation of students, teachers, and administrators into single-sex public schools may serve cultural and religious purposes, but it seems to create an unintentional ghetto for boys...." I think single-sex education is the answer here because for girls, it allows them to flourish and grow without the male-dominated Middle Eastern oppression. Girls can grow and learn in an…

girls seem out perform boys in usa, there is no sex segregation in usa , afaik.

http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/04/girls-grades....

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