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Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

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Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#11

Post by throwawayjava »

Pulcinella wrote: post #8

This is anecdotal, but I have also noticed the related inverse problem as well. Students who think they are "one of the dumb kids" do much worse than similar students who do not think that. These students will randomly guess the answer to a multiple choice[1] question if they don't instantly know the answer, even if the answer to the question was basically given in another question on the test. Part of helping this k…

This is absolutely my experience -- even a few positive reinforcements ("Wow, that was a super clever idea! I wouldn't have thought of solving the problem that way!") can change students' mindset, at least in a particular class/subject.

It's amazing how few students are actually as bad as they appear to be on first pass. I basically go into every student/teacher interaction assuming the kid is above average, and I'm very rarely disappointed. That's because "average" is often pulled way down by issues surrounding self-image and study behavior, both of which have no bearing on raw ability.

Basically, "confidence + hard work" is usually enough to take a kid from below average to slightly above average.

Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#13

Post by Overtonwindow »

rkowalick wrote: post #4

I have been told that praising a kid for effort vs. results is much more important. As a child, I was told I was smart and basically tried to coast as much as possible. I still have a lot of trouble learning how to do something new, especially because I have kind of internalized that I'm good at everything.

I was the opposite. Good results were rare so a lot of focus was on praising my effort. That meant I put in enough effort to coast, having low confidence in my results. It's hard for me to learn new things now as well.

Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#14

Post by TeMPOraL »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #13
rkowalick wrote: post #4

I have been told that praising a kid for effort vs. results is much more important. As a child, I was told I was smart and basically tried to coast as much as possible. I still have a lot of trouble learning how to do something new, especially because I have kind of internalized that I'm good at everything.

I was the opposite. Good results were rare so a lot of focus was on praising my effort. That meant I put in enough effort to coast, having low confidence in my results. It's hard for me to learn new things now as well.

Basically, no matter what we do, our kids are screwed either way :/.

Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#15

Post by meshy »

This concept from Carol Dweck's research is core to Allison Kaptur's keynote at the New Zealand Python User Group in 2015 [0]. It's a good talk regarding the importance of having a growth mindset.

If you prefer a written version, it's available on Allison Kaptur's website[1]. Previous discussion [2].

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcc6JEhDSpo

[1]: http://akaptur.com/blog/2015/10/10/effective-learning-strate...

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10370669

Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#16

Post by throwawayjava »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #13
rkowalick wrote: post #4

I have been told that praising a kid for effort vs. results is much more important. As a child, I was told I was smart and basically tried to coast as much as possible. I still have a lot of trouble learning how to do something new, especially because I have kind of internalized that I'm good at everything.

I was the opposite. Good results were rare so a lot of focus was on praising my effort. That meant I put in enough effort to coast, having low confidence in my results. It's hard for me to learn new things now as well.

I think the most effective approach is somewhere in the middle -- you have to praise successful efforts. The more crucial part is organizing the curriculum so that every student has enough opportunities to "win" that they maintain confidence, but "lose" often enough that they don't become complacent.

That's hard enough to do in a 1:1 setting, let alone a 30:1 classroom. I think there's some benefit to 1:1 tutoring/individual enrichment any time a student isn't smack dab in the middle of the bell curve.

Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#17

Post by phkahler »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #13
rkowalick wrote: post #4

I have been told that praising a kid for effort vs. results is much more important. As a child, I was told I was smart and basically tried to coast as much as possible. I still have a lot of trouble learning how to do something new, especially because I have kind of internalized that I'm good at everything.

I was the opposite. Good results were rare so a lot of focus was on praising my effort. That meant I put in enough effort to coast, having low confidence in my results. It's hard for me to learn new things now as well.

I've take a slightly different approach. When my kid has success, I praise the effort put in to get there. This doesn't praise the kid directly (leading to inflated beliefs about how great they are) and it doesn't praise effort for it's own sake. It praises the kids ability to put in effort to get the results they want. I'm not saying it's right, or better, but like some of the other commenters here I've got my own issues in this area and it's my attempt to handle the next generation a little better. BTW to a lesser extent I apply this to myself now too.

Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#18

Post by charlesdm »

rkowalick wrote: post #4

I have been told that praising a kid for effort vs. results is much more important. As a child, I was told I was smart and basically tried to coast as much as possible. I still have a lot of trouble learning how to do something new, especially because I have kind of internalized that I'm good at everything.

A bit of both is probably good.

For example: in Belgium, in recent years a lot of kids are (often) given points for effort so they can pass a certain grade. More and more the case. I talked to a teacher friend about this, and while he thinks its great, I think it's ridiculous. Do we want a society of people who put in some effort yet achieve nothing?

Now, not that I think the educational system shouldn't be flexible and account for the fact that not everyone has the same level of intelligence or ability (everyone is different + has different talents, which is great!), but you can end up with some weird situations. Add to that the fact that the people who become teachers are generally of quite low quality (very few bright minds end up teaching) and you can easily see the quality of education declining.

While grades are to be looked at on a case by case basis (and I'm aware people don't often find their passions and talents until later in life), I don't believe that you should get (too much) points for effort. You don't get points in life for effort either.

Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#19

Post by franciscop »

I was watching a coming of age Japanese movie yesterday (Flying Colors) and exactly this was said there. I didn't search it at the time, but I am glad to read this now and to have it answered.

As now I am teaching people I will strongly take it into consideration when praising, however I wonder how much it differs from adults and kids.

Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#20

Post by Pigo »

rkowalick wrote: post #4

I have been told that praising a kid for effort vs. results is much more important. As a child, I was told I was smart and basically tried to coast as much as possible. I still have a lot of trouble learning how to do something new, especially because I have kind of internalized that I'm good at everything.

That's extremely self-aware, and honest of you to be able to admit.
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