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The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

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Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#11

Post by detaro »

sandworm101 wrote: post #10
wolfgke wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems are rather the data caps for mobile networks at least in Germany: Nearly every DSL or similar broadband connection comes without data caps and when the Deutsche Telekom tried to introduce data caps a few years ago, there was a large outcry and threats to go to another provider. The Deutsche Telekom soon caved in. On the other hand for mobile connections people tolerate these data caps - and complain abou…

>> ... large outcry and threats to go to another provider. Not an option in rural canada. There aren't any second providers. Even where two may exist for cellular coverage, only one will likely provide reasonable signal in a particular rural location. As for cable/DSL, there is no competition whatsoever. The only real option for protest is through government ombudsmen. hence my point about 5G being used in debates ov…

Yes, in the German system Internet over the phone lines has to be open to other providers, so for ADSL there always is competition and thus it's hard for a single provider to worsen conditions for ADSL customers (also takes away competition as incentive to physically improve the infrastructure though).

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#12

Post by necessity »

>it takes a year to approve a cell that can be installed in an hour. Permit fees run to thousands of dollars per cell, and cells often require permits not only from cities but from Native American tribal authorities—even for locations far from tribal lands

And I thought we had it bad in Brazil...

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#13

Post by bonzini »

sandworm101 wrote: post #10
wolfgke wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems are rather the data caps for mobile networks at least in Germany: Nearly every DSL or similar broadband connection comes without data caps and when the Deutsche Telekom tried to introduce data caps a few years ago, there was a large outcry and threats to go to another provider. The Deutsche Telekom soon caved in. On the other hand for mobile connections people tolerate these data caps - and complain abou…

>> ... large outcry and threats to go to another provider. Not an option in rural canada. There aren't any second providers. Even where two may exist for cellular coverage, only one will likely provide reasonable signal in a particular rural location. As for cable/DSL, there is no competition whatsoever. The only real option for protest is through government ombudsmen. hence my point about 5G being used in debates ov…

Do you have virtual carriers (MVNs)?

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#14

Post by sandworm101 »

bonzini wrote: post #13
sandworm101 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> ... large outcry and threats to go to another provider. Not an option in rural canada. There aren't any second providers. Even where two may exist for cellular coverage, only one will likely provide reasonable signal in a particular rural location. As for cable/DSL, there is no competition whatsoever. The only real option for protest is through government ombudsmen. hence my point about 5G being used in debates ov…

Do you have virtual carriers (MVNs)?

No.

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#15

Post by [deleted] »

engined wrote: post #5
kevinburke wrote: post #2

It would be really helpful to know what concrete actions to take to my City Council, if I want this to happen. Is there model legislation I can point at? What about my city's current processes is helpful or harmful to adding 5G? How can I find ISP's interested in making this happen in my town?

This is an area I have experience and expertise in. Look at Master License Agreements in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Charlotte. Some states also have uniform legislation snaking its way through the various bodies, including Virginia, Ohio, Washington, Minnesota, Colorado, Florida, and California. Some is driven by ALEC and/or the wireless carriers, so it may be aggressively pro-deployment (to the detriment of local…

[deleted]

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#16

Post by jwilliams »

These towers are popping up all over San Francisco. Another one got installed a few doors up a couple of weeks ago.

They're hard to notice as they're generally quite well disguised. Usually just an extended bulge on top of a light pole. If it's a wooden pole, they'll paint it so it blends in.

According to the local articles there is actually little recourse for locals in objecting: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/10/31/san-francisco-re... (warning - several annoying autoplay videos).

Update: just walked past one https://photos.app.goo.gl/I8MWfox0eB6G7ztD2

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#17

Post by pwg »

jwilliams wrote: post #16

These towers are popping up all over San Francisco. Another one got installed a few doors up a couple of weeks ago. They're hard to notice as they're generally quite well disguised. Usually just an extended bulge on top of a light pole. If it's a wooden pole, they'll paint it so it blends in. According to the local articles there is actually little recourse for locals in objecting: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20…

> warning - several annoying autoplay videos

NoScript in default deny JS mode - zero auto-play videos yet I was able read the whole article.

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#18

Post by kibwen »

I wonder at what point we'll start seeing people simply stop paying for in-home internet via WiFi in favor of relying solely on their mobile data package, in the same way that people stopped paying for corded phone lines and are starting to stop paying for cable television. For some reason I'm frightened at the prospect... is it because I trust my ISP more than my wireless carrier?

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#19

Post by cbhl »

wolfgke wrote: post #6
microcolonel wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, the ISPs could probably find a way to offer DSL-style metering on 5G networks in places they're not willing to enhance DSL (or lay fiber). If there's less local traffic on the licensed bands, then it should not really cost any more. The fact is, most Canadian home broadband connections are slower than most metropolitan LTE connections in both latency and throughput. In my personal opinion, relian…

The problems are rather the data caps for mobile networks at least in Germany: Nearly every DSL or similar broadband connection comes without data caps and when the Deutsche Telekom tried to introduce data caps a few years ago, there was a large outcry and threats to go to another provider. The Deutsche Telekom soon caved in. On the other hand for mobile connections people tolerate these data caps - and complain abou…

My experience in Canada: both Cable/DSL and LTE/mobile networks have data caps; but the former has caps in the ~120-300GB range, whereas the latter has caps in the 6-12 GB range.
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