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Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

reuters.com

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Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#11

Post by jasonmaydie »

mmjaa wrote: post #5
throwaway5752 wrote: post #3

It's amazing to me that Russian espionage has been able to turn Western media against itself. Russia, China and every other advanced nation do the same things to the limits of their capability. Russia, in particular, killed a bunch of journalists over domestic intelligence operations, though. But people just eat up the stories about the US uncritically.

I think the fact that the US is engaged in open warfare around the world has a lot to do with it. Russia has its problems - but it hasn't deployed $Trillions of military assets around the world in order to project power, like the USA has. That has definitely got to count for something.

The same power that has kept the world peace for the last 50 years? How is that a bad thing?

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#12

Post by bhouston »

jasonmaydie wrote: post #9
Lendal wrote: post #8

> Snowden’s revelations have hurt the United States’ relations with some allies and slowed the sales of U.S. technology products abroad. So it wasn't the spying that hurt the relations, it was Snowden. Okay. I'll stop reading now. This news source just discredited itself.

All countries spy. In fact it is imperative that they do

Only a couple countries are truly effective at it, although all would like to be.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#13

Post by Allower »

jasonmaydie wrote: post #9
Lendal wrote: post #8

> Snowden’s revelations have hurt the United States’ relations with some allies and slowed the sales of U.S. technology products abroad. So it wasn't the spying that hurt the relations, it was Snowden. Okay. I'll stop reading now. This news source just discredited itself.

All countries spy. In fact it is imperative that they do

Care to elaborate?

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#14

Post by meri_dian »

taf2 wrote: post #6
mmjaa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that the US is engaged in open warfare around the world has a lot to do with it. Russia has its problems - but it hasn't deployed $Trillions of military assets around the world in order to project power, like the USA has. That has definitely got to count for something.

True they just invade their neighboring countries and say the people living in those places wanted them to help

When was the last time the US invaded a "neighboring" country?

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#15

Post by zimpenfish »

jasonmaydie wrote: post #11
mmjaa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that the US is engaged in open warfare around the world has a lot to do with it. Russia has its problems - but it hasn't deployed $Trillions of military assets around the world in order to project power, like the USA has. That has definitely got to count for something.

The same power that has kept the world peace for the last 50 years? How is that a bad thing?

> world peace for the last 50 years

I think you might have a different definition of "peace" than many people because we haven't had "world peace" for 50 years at all. Just look at how many conflicts are currently ongoing in the world (and how many of those are caused by US meddling...)

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#16

Post by saiya-jin »

taf2 wrote: post #6
mmjaa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that the US is engaged in open warfare around the world has a lot to do with it. Russia has its problems - but it hasn't deployed $Trillions of military assets around the world in order to project power, like the USA has. That has definitely got to count for something.

True they just invade their neighboring countries and say the people living in those places wanted them to help

Look, if Russia would be the top dog of the Game, then there would be much more focus on them. When Putin says they are good guys in some conflict, only brainwashed russians who only watch state TV take him seriously, rest of the world just smiles and moves on.

If US claims constantly they are good guys while supplying arms basically straight to pure evil like ISIS just to play the Game, well that deserves a bit of attention. Plus add other stuff like total internet surveillance and you end up with a feeling that US holds too much power. Without a record of action showing that we should trust them any more than others.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#17

Post by JRITSRob »

taf2 wrote: post #6
mmjaa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that the US is engaged in open warfare around the world has a lot to do with it. Russia has its problems - but it hasn't deployed $Trillions of military assets around the world in order to project power, like the USA has. That has definitely got to count for something.

True they just invade their neighboring countries and say the people living in those places wanted them to help

Banana Republic. Cuba. Let's not pretend the world superpowers don't all do this stuff to advance their position. Russia does it to advance it's national position. China does it to advance it's national position. US does it to advance their corporate position (largely tied to national position, just a vaguely alternative setup of the same stuff).

Tribalism, to feudalism, and any point in between we see the same situations play out. Look at all the empires over the ages. We're all just incrementally advancing the same playbook each time.

I don't have any suggestion as to how this cycle would ever be changed. The only thing that differs is the move makers. The moves all look pretty similar. One nation crumbles, proffers change, wants to avoid repeating/continuing discovered atrocities, another nation/empire is ready to take it's place.

We can call out the atrocities globally as we see them. Try to fight each individual fire. There's no pretending that every nation isn't guilty of trying to advance it's position by any means necessary. Offering the humanitarian excuse as a "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" deal is universal. Doing what you can to avoid the aforementioned "calling out".

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#18

Post by phkahler »

Lendal wrote: post #8

> Snowden’s revelations have hurt the United States’ relations with some allies and slowed the sales of U.S. technology products abroad. So it wasn't the spying that hurt the relations, it was Snowden. Okay. I'll stop reading now. This news source just discredited itself.

You should have continued:

>> Peter Swire, one of five members of U.S. President Barack Obama’s Review Group on Intelligence and Communications Technology, said the Kaspersky report showed that it is essential for the country to consider the possible impact on trade and diplomatic relations before deciding to use its knowledge of software flaws for intelligence gathering.

“There can be serious negative effects on other U.S. interests,” Swire said.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#19

Post by zimpenfish »

meri_dian wrote: post #14
taf2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True they just invade their neighboring countries and say the people living in those places wanted them to help

When was the last time the US invaded a "neighboring" country?

Panama (1989) was an invasion with troops.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Pana...

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#20

Post by Allower »

jasonmaydie wrote: post #11
mmjaa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that the US is engaged in open warfare around the world has a lot to do with it. Russia has its problems - but it hasn't deployed $Trillions of military assets around the world in order to project power, like the USA has. That has definitely got to count for something.

The same power that has kept the world peace for the last 50 years? How is that a bad thing?

one mans peace is another mans tyranny. why are you ignoring the dozens of brutal dictatorships the US has instituted and kept in power over the past century +?
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