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Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

projects.thestar.com

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Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#11

Post by wiz21c »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #7
wiz21c wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My second question is : why don't union gets bigger and stronger ? Millions can't be put on the brink on poverty without an answer. Yesterday, on a european TV, I saw a documentary about middle class people who became half-homeless (their words). They were just unlucky to loose their jobs. Now I understand they may have had too much credits or debts here and there but, these were middle class, that is, they went down…

Almost no Belgians in Belgium are homeless. I haven't seen anyone, although there seems to be some in the main capital. I know a lot of refugees live in sheltes and currently there are homeless people in Brussels due to the breakup of Calais. But these people don't want to get asile in Belgium, but want to go to the UK. So that's why they don't receive anything here. That is their choice ofc.

Yep, statistically there are not many. But people helped by "social security" is growing faster than demographics. Those people are at the last level of social welfare, after that they're super close to homelessness.

the thing is, before being homeless, you're already in deep shit.

for refugees, I think you're right but "their choice" is a way to frame them that is a bit harsh. I see many of them everyday close to north station (brussels) and I doubt it was their choice to be there in the first place.

(edited the station, it's the north one :-))

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#12

Post by mabbo »

Asooka wrote: post #8
mabbo wrote: post #3

I don't understand how this strategy works. Company A doesn't want to hire employees because employees have rights. Instead, they hire temps from Company B who abuses their employees' rights. Why doesn't the government start policing the abuse of rights by Company B? Why doesn't the government pass laws that acknowledge that these employees are truly employees of Company A?

First, as stated in the article Company B practically doesn't exist and if it gets closed, it can reappear as Company C next door. Second, because the people writing these laws didn't envision such greed and now there's too much lobbying money thrown around.

> now there's too much lobbying money thrown around

But this is Canada! We have strict political donation laws and campaign spending laws that really prevent lobbying from getting nuts like it is in America.

I'm mostly upset because this is in my back yard. I could be at this factory in 20 minutes in current traffic conditions.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#13

Post by mschuster91 »

wiz21c wrote: post #4
grecy wrote: post #2

Many companies in countries like Canada and Australia are now trying harder than ever to emulate the United States with it's extremely low wages, health, benefits, etc. for temp or casual workers. Unfortunately, it's a race to the bottom, as tens of millions of Americas will attest to. My simple question is - can we justify treating humans like this in the name of increasing profit?

My second question is : why don't union gets bigger and stronger ? Millions can't be put on the brink on poverty without an answer. Yesterday, on a european TV, I saw a documentary about middle class people who became half-homeless (their words). They were just unlucky to loose their jobs. Now I understand they may have had too much credits or debts here and there but, these were middle class, that is, they went down…

> My second question is : why don't union gets bigger and stronger ?

Due to a combination of anti-union propaganda, (US only?) unions having an image of being corrupt and the shift to "gig economy" which was specifically created to combat unions...

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#14

Post by Theizestooke »

That is some great journalism, can't remember the last time I read an article like that. Also telling that this article has less than 20 comments on Hacker News. Or maybe it's a sign of the times that this sort of stuff appears on a tech news site at all.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#15

Post by s_kilk »

wiz21c wrote: post #4
grecy wrote: post #2

Many companies in countries like Canada and Australia are now trying harder than ever to emulate the United States with it's extremely low wages, health, benefits, etc. for temp or casual workers. Unfortunately, it's a race to the bottom, as tens of millions of Americas will attest to. My simple question is - can we justify treating humans like this in the name of increasing profit?

My second question is : why don't union gets bigger and stronger ? Millions can't be put on the brink on poverty without an answer. Yesterday, on a european TV, I saw a documentary about middle class people who became half-homeless (their words). They were just unlucky to loose their jobs. Now I understand they may have had too much credits or debts here and there but, these were middle class, that is, they went down…

The Bourgeois State, in both the US and Europe, has put a lot of work into undermining Unions, and Labour power in general, all in the service of Capital interests.

These outcomes are not surprising, this is literally the project of NeoLiberalism. A feature, not a bug.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#16

Post by jonssons »

as an ex-temp worker: that's how it is. You want to work, you have to put up with the stuff they throw at you. No. It's not fair. No. It's not just. It's for the poor. It's for the uneducated. It's for the immigrants. It's for the vulnerable people, because they are easy to exploit. They don't know their own rights.

Temp offices should not be allowed to exist.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#17

Post by andrewl »

This kind of article is a reminder of how much we need traditional newspapers, and what we'd lose if they went away. I sometimes read suggestions that independent bloggers will replace newspapers, but I don't think they can do everything newspaper reporters do. This reporter worked undercover for a month. There would also have been a lot of time spent on background research before she went undercover. Then it would have taken her more time after that to write the article. During all that time she was paid by the Toronto Star. An independent writer could work undercover, and some have, but they're stuck for that period making a very low salary and having to worry about making ends meet.

Then, at least as important, the reporter is backed by the Toronto Star's legal team. I suspect that if she were an independent and published her story on her own blog, this writer would have been sued by the bakery owners and compelled to take the story down. And she would also pay a lot for her legal defense. In this case, if the bakery owners want to sue, they can, but they'll be suing the Toronto Star, which has resources to mount a legal defense, and a voice with which to write about an unjustified lawsuit.

So this seems like real journalism to me, and I don't want it to go away. And when I say "real journalism" I'm thinking of George Orwell's view that "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations."

I'm also thinking of Finley Peter Dunne, who said the point of journalism is to "comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable."

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#18

Post by dingo_bat »

grecy wrote: post #2

Many companies in countries like Canada and Australia are now trying harder than ever to emulate the United States with it's extremely low wages, health, benefits, etc. for temp or casual workers. Unfortunately, it's a race to the bottom, as tens of millions of Americas will attest to. My simple question is - can we justify treating humans like this in the name of increasing profit?

If I own a company, I can justify anything short of illegal activities to increase profit. If you don't want companies to behave in a certain way, get it outlawed.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#19

Post by dsfyu404ed »

I used to work in similar places. They suck. There's a reason people don't wear loose fitting clothing around machinery though.

A lot of the author's complaints are just part for the course in these kinds of environments. Low margin industries suck in general.

The problem here isn't temp agencies it's companies that would be doing bad things anyway hire their full time workforce though temp agencies to create level of abstraction that helps avoid liability. Obviously there's temp agencies that cater directly to this but the problem is on the demand side. Some companies want to treat people badly and they can use temp agencies to do it.

I know people who have done very well (or as well as you can for those kinds of jobs) at temp agencies. Employers can use a temp agency and if they like the temp(s) they get they can direct hire the temp(s) and cut out the middle man. This doesn't happen when your entire workforce is temps though.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#20

Post by dsfyu404ed »

jonssons wrote: post #16

as an ex-temp worker: that's how it is. You want to work, you have to put up with the stuff they throw at you. No. It's not fair. No. It's not just. It's for the poor. It's for the uneducated. It's for the immigrants. It's for the vulnerable people, because they are easy to exploit. They don't know their own rights. Temp offices should not be allowed to exist.

>Temp offices should not be allowed to exist.

I disagree.

Working for a temp agency doing catering, sports venue and whatnot is generally more stable income than working for several places like that directly. Temp agencies work well for industries where demand is variable but predictable.

Companies that use temps to fill their baseline staffing requirements to skirt legal/ethical requirements are terrible though.

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