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I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

houstonchronicle.com

11–20 of 147 posts

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#11
post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

There are absolutely people doing this professionally for organizations like the National Guard, US Navy and other responders https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/08/28...

There were even wings from New York and other states who went to Texas just to assist: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/08/31/harvey-helicopter-res...

According to the first article, "We haven’t deployed this many people since World War I. So, this is literally the most we have deployed in 100 years."

It's impossible (or, at least, not anywhere near feasible) to plan for disasters on this scale, and there will probably always be a level of response from people who aren't professionals.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#12

The part of this story I don't understand myself, is how so many people had bandwidth to download and use an app, in an environment in which I would have assumed both power and the cell network–especially data–were limping or just down. The implicit question is, what percentage of people in the disaster zone did, and did not, have a channel out through this app? Does this story represent the 10% case or the 50% case…

A lot of times, people using the app were freinds of those being rescued, and were in touch with them over SMS or phone.

However, many were using the app, and it's a great showing on the part of the Houston cell network.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#13

The part of this story I don't understand myself, is how so many people had bandwidth to download and use an app, in an environment in which I would have assumed both power and the cell network–especially data–were limping or just down. The implicit question is, what percentage of people in the disaster zone did, and did not, have a channel out through this app? Does this story represent the 10% case or the 50% case…

Some of the cellphone network can operate with no wired power or network. Towers can have p2p microwave links and battery backups. That doesn't really answer your question about how/if/how-long it worked this week.

http://ups-battery-backup.com/cell-phone-ups.php

https://enterprise.spectrum.com/solutions/carrier-services/c...

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#14
post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

I think it's a fair question. I suspect the answer is just that it's not economically practical to be professionally prepared for eventualities of this scale. Like small towns with volunteer fire departments, there just isn't enough activity to keep a professional staff employed - at least not a staff big enough to handle a disaster of this magnitude. How many 911 dispatchers would you need? Can the (expensive, purpose-built, locally scoped) infrastructure sustain the volume?

I actually think this is pretty reasonable. We're too used to thinking that bad things are Someone Else's Responsibility. Maybe general-purpose tools (internet, walkie-talkie apps) combined with a sense of civic duty are the solution we should embrace, perhaps with a bit more public training (ala volunteer fire departments).

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#15
post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

> And don't the victims deserve organized, professional response?

Would you prefer an organized, professional response in two days, or an impromptu Walter-Mitty-wants-to-help response in an hour? I don't think it's ever feasible to rely only on professionals for response to wide-scale events like this. You need neighbors helping neighbors.

Think about whatever naturally sourced neighborhood disruption strikes your area. For us in New England, it's snow storms and ice storms. In a snow storm, I go shovel/snow blow out some neighbors sidewalks and/or cars. In an ice storm, I'll help clear the sidewalks near my house of fallen branches because I have the time and equipment to do so. I'm not about to sign up and attend year-round training or drills on disaster response, as I have other things to do. Instead, I'm going to fire up my chainsaw or snowblower as/when/if I see it's needed to help someone who can't reasonably help themself and when I'm not reasonably needed at work anyway due to the scale of the event.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#16
post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

How do you scale that in a hurry? Do you have people doing this full time sitting idle waiting for a full scale disaster to hit? You already have the National Guard, but how can that force cover an area the size of the Netherlands — with a thousand boats ready to go? Texas had literally thousands of rescues. It’s ridiculous to suggest that any government force can deploy a force large enough to handle that within a day. Even the military would have a tough time blanketing an area that large with everything needed in time. Ranger battalions could secure an airport size area within 18 hours notice on the other side of the world, but this emergency covered a land area about 3000 times the size of the Houston airport. We are talking about thousands of troops not to mention the logistical requirements — as well as a considerable need for local knowledge as well.

This is the difference between Americans and many other cultures — there is a sense of self-reliance that often doesn’t exist in other places. Many people would prefer to let the government handle it as if the government was some omnipotent force with infinite resources that are positioned exactly in the right place: like battalions of Rangers sitting in a C130 at Hunter Army Airfield just waiting to drop into action. People underestimate the logistics of massive rescue operations.

Also, a practical question: how do you deploy 1000 boats instantly? Air drops? Does the government just have thousands of boats staged across the country with thousand of qualified operators ready to jump into action?

Americans as a culture are different — they don’t sit around waiting for “official” help — they jump into action. I’d personally rather count on some redneck with a boat than just hope government comes through. While bureaucrats are figuring out what to do, old Jimbo with his swamp boat is already in the water en route.

That’s America. You don’t have to agree with it, you don’t have to like it, but Harvey was a great example of the American spirit in action: neighbors helping neighbors — even local businesses, like Houston’s largest furniture store, opening their doors to help. In France, you would never see an IKEA or Auchan opening their doors to those in need during a disaster, you’d never see a virtual armada of volunteers ready to jump into action. During the great Europe flood of 2016, people died in their homes — wouldn't they have loved to have the Cajun Navy? In Triftern, Germany, 250 students were trapped in a school for 24 hours — I bet they would have liked to have some rednecks with swamp boats.

I am not arguing against government disaster response, I am arguing that in times of disaster, Americans, especially in the South, are proud to jump into action. Lives were saved because a whole bunch of people decided to act.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#17
post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

> Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally?

Professionals train and plan to coordinate the work of other professionals. Volunteers from outside that process can supplement their work or serve in other roles entirely.

Your questions imply that there is something wrong with more chaotically organized volunteers supplementing the work of those professionals without close supervision. You couldn't be more wrong. There are plenty of people in need of help to go around, and volunteers might easily reach people who are overlooked or triaged by the professionals during the early stages of recovery.

> What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed?

I am sure they are all just sitting around since there's basically nothing going on to demand their attention.

> Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD?

It's the middle of an ongoing disaster. Thank God people are acting and helping rather than pondering these questions...

> And don't the victims deserve organized, professional response?

Limiting the response to organized professionals would be stupid. Turning volunteers into professionals in the midst of a disaster is impossible. It's hard to know what you're on about here.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#18
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why you got downvoted, perhaps downvoters would chime in? I get that local organizations deal with some situations better than some large, clumsy bureaucracy but I tend to agree with wnissen, if this continues as trend relying on a patchwork of individuals (heroic as they may be). I wish there was a non-military or less-military domestic version of this, I've considered joining the national guard for thi…

Isn't that about the Red Cross? (which has its own issues around funding efficiency) Or the Civil Air Patrol? Or (less military, not non-military) US Coast Guard?

The Red Cross doesn’t do rescues. They come in after the fact generally to both help people and plan their next fundraiser. It still takes time to deploy people.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#19
post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

This was the largest disaster in US history and it changed rapidly over the course of 72 hours. In instances like this the ability to tap into the resiliency and adaptability of ordinary citizens is a great advantage. I would like to see more done by the government to enable and support (perhaps even professionalize) the spontaneous engagement of ordinary citizens in emergency situations rather than staffing excess disaster management capacity only to be used once every 5 years.

Would it be better to quadruple the size of FEMA or train more Americans in CPR, hypothermia, how to react in a flood, how to prioritize casualties, how to interact with others and coordinate, etc...

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#20
post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

How do you scale that in a hurry? Do you have people doing this full time sitting idle waiting for a full scale disaster to hit? You already have the National Guard, but how can that force cover an area the size of the Netherlands — with a thousand boats ready to go? Texas had literally thousands of rescues. It’s ridiculous to suggest that any government force can deploy a force large enough to handle that within a d…

I don't know why you were downvoted. This was a great comment.
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