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Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

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Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#11

Post by wyldfire »

mc32 wrote: post #3
agarden wrote: post #2

One can easily imagine reading an article like this published on a Russian site, with 'Kaspersky' replaced with 'Symantec' and 'FSB' with 'NSA'.

TBH, regardless of the NYT and their recent "red-scare", I'd be concerned with using them on sensitive systems -because either knowingly or unwittingly they could have FSB moles working for them.

I have no idea one way or the other (regarding either the NYT or Kaspersky). But it does strike me that your theory is credible.

However it also seems credible that Microsoft, Intel and other critical hardware and software vendors based in the US may have moles and/or agreements in place with CIA/NSA.

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#12

Post by mc32 »

wyldfire wrote: post #11
mc32 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH, regardless of the NYT and their recent "red-scare", I'd be concerned with using them on sensitive systems -because either knowingly or unwittingly they could have FSB moles working for them.

I have no idea one way or the other (regarding either the NYT or Kaspersky). But it does strike me that your theory is credible. However it also seems credible that Microsoft, Intel and other critical hardware and software vendors based in the US may have moles and/or agreements in place with CIA/NSA.

That's possible as well but if you are US based at least the damage is contained --the NSA isn't going to give your data to a foreign competitor (or local for you have recourse in the legal system), whereas I'm not so sure the FSB would not "share" information with their preferred firms and if you become aware of it, you would have very little recourse.

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#13

Post by bayesian_horse »

nxc18 wrote: post #8

While its certainly true that we need to worry about these Russian products, the damage that the NSA has done is enormous. Can I trust Cisco VPNs? Can I trust Windows? Can I trust my router? The NSA opens boxes in shipment to break their security, and they have the resources to do a lot more. Unfortunately for us in the U.S., the NSA threat is a real one, not a hypothetical. And a question for the people who know mor…

The reason you "know" the NSA is a threat is because of the increased "transparency" of western democracies.

There is no transparency in Russia. In a system of kleptocracy, bribery and a questionable judicial system, there is no boundary between state actors and any "private" corporation. If the FSB asks Kasperski for help, they can't say no, and they won't tell.

If given the choice, I'd still rather trust American intelligence services. In fact, I do believe American products to be safer in this regard.

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#14

Post by bayesian_horse »

newprint wrote: post #7

and ex-CIA employees work for Cisco...

Russian propaganda to the contrary, there is a difference between the workings of the CIA and FSB, and the general political and judicial systems of Russia and the USA.

If ex-CIA employees work for Cisco, their work is subject to corporate leadership. Whatever they do, or are allowed to do, is the responsibility of the company as a whole.

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#15

Post by bayesian_horse »

mc32 wrote: post #3
agarden wrote: post #2

One can easily imagine reading an article like this published on a Russian site, with 'Kaspersky' replaced with 'Symantec' and 'FSB' with 'NSA'.

TBH, regardless of the NYT and their recent "red-scare", I'd be concerned with using them on sensitive systems -because either knowingly or unwittingly they could have FSB moles working for them.

You really don't need FSB moles if the property and even personal survival of the CEO is in the hands of an authocratic regime.

No Russian citizen in Russia, especially not anyone with any kind of wealth, can deny the government's requests. Whether the influence on Kasperky is from the top or only starts further down the chain, is more of a stylistic aspect of handling intelligence assets...

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#16

Post by duncan_bayne »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #13
nxc18 wrote: post #8

While its certainly true that we need to worry about these Russian products, the damage that the NSA has done is enormous. Can I trust Cisco VPNs? Can I trust Windows? Can I trust my router? The NSA opens boxes in shipment to break their security, and they have the resources to do a lot more. Unfortunately for us in the U.S., the NSA threat is a real one, not a hypothetical. And a question for the people who know mor…

The reason you "know" the NSA is a threat is because of the increased "transparency" of western democracies. There is no transparency in Russia. In a system of kleptocracy, bribery and a questionable judicial system, there is no boundary between state actors and any "private" corporation. If the FSB asks Kasperski for help, they can't say no, and they won't tell. If given the choice, I'd still rather trust American i…

> If the FSB asks Kasperski for help, they can't say no, and they won't tell.

Isn't that _exactly_ how it works in the USA, with National Security Letters?

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#17

Post by Shank »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #13
nxc18 wrote: post #8

While its certainly true that we need to worry about these Russian products, the damage that the NSA has done is enormous. Can I trust Cisco VPNs? Can I trust Windows? Can I trust my router? The NSA opens boxes in shipment to break their security, and they have the resources to do a lot more. Unfortunately for us in the U.S., the NSA threat is a real one, not a hypothetical. And a question for the people who know mor…

The reason you "know" the NSA is a threat is because of the increased "transparency" of western democracies. There is no transparency in Russia. In a system of kleptocracy, bribery and a questionable judicial system, there is no boundary between state actors and any "private" corporation. If the FSB asks Kasperski for help, they can't say no, and they won't tell. If given the choice, I'd still rather trust American i…

> The reason you "know" the NSA is a threat is because of the increased "transparency" of western democracies.

The reason why we know so much about what the NSA does is because a few NSA contractors have broken the law (for good or for ill) and leaked classified information about operations. Without leaks, there would be no information about what NSA does or doesn't do.

The only difference between NSA and FSB is that FSB hasn't used as many contractors and hasn't had as many leakers in Snowden-like positions.

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#18

Post by Mikeb85 »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #13
nxc18 wrote: post #8

While its certainly true that we need to worry about these Russian products, the damage that the NSA has done is enormous. Can I trust Cisco VPNs? Can I trust Windows? Can I trust my router? The NSA opens boxes in shipment to break their security, and they have the resources to do a lot more. Unfortunately for us in the U.S., the NSA threat is a real one, not a hypothetical. And a question for the people who know mor…

The reason you "know" the NSA is a threat is because of the increased "transparency" of western democracies. There is no transparency in Russia. In a system of kleptocracy, bribery and a questionable judicial system, there is no boundary between state actors and any "private" corporation. If the FSB asks Kasperski for help, they can't say no, and they won't tell. If given the choice, I'd still rather trust American i…

> The reason you "know" the NSA is a threat is because of the increased "transparency" of western democracies.

Except it's not. It's because of leakers who were aggressively pursued/prosecuted by the US government...

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#19

Post by bayesian_horse »

Shank wrote: post #17
bayesian_horse wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason you "know" the NSA is a threat is because of the increased "transparency" of western democracies. There is no transparency in Russia. In a system of kleptocracy, bribery and a questionable judicial system, there is no boundary between state actors and any "private" corporation. If the FSB asks Kasperski for help, they can't say no, and they won't tell. If given the choice, I'd still rather trust American i…

> The reason you "know" the NSA is a threat is because of the increased "transparency" of western democracies. The reason why we know so much about what the NSA does is because a few NSA contractors have broken the law (for good or for ill) and leaked classified information about operations. Without leaks, there would be no information about what NSA does or doesn't do. The only difference between NSA and FSB is that…

Leakers, and the ensuing discussion and spread of the leaked information, is part of the western culture of transparency.

Of course government agencies don't want to expose their secrets voluntarily. They have to be dragged into the open kicking and screaming. Doesn't mean that they aren't, though.

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