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Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

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Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#11

Post by notalawyer »

colanderman wrote: post #5
byuu wrote: post #3

I'm all for everyone commenting so at least it's well known how far this FCC is going against public opinion, and encourage everyone to make their voices heard. But, and I hate to be the cynic here, does anyone really believe that even if all 323 million Americans commented in opposition to killing net neutrality, that Ajit Pai would relent? It's all but guaranteed he's going to do this. The only question is when, no…

What are the checks and balances here? He's not an elected official (so he can't be voted out), and he knows his time is up as soon as the executive branch turns blue again. So of course he will do his best to please the ISPs in whose coddling arms he will find refuge after his tenure. Best I can think of is Congress passing a law to enforce net neutrality.

So the federal regulatory agencies actually have fairly unchecked power; it's one of their flaws. Lawyer boyfriend has remarked that they are actually rather unconstitutional in the sense that they have broad powers to make what are effectively laws, and constitutionally, only Congress can do that.

That being said, Congress has rightly delegated the ability to manage things like radio transmissions, the environment, food and drugs, etc. to bodies that have more time and domain knowledge, and under a decent president and Congress, we wouldn't have to worry about bad actors making their way to the tops of these organizations. And frankly, do you really have faith that Americans would do any better having to elect tens or hundreds of people to various positions in regulatory bodies?

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#12

Post by aaomidi »

shuntress wrote: post #8
anotherbrownguy wrote: post #4

It's unfair to ISPs (some of it is their own doing like introducing "unlimited data" purely based on the assumption that most users wouldn't use their data at the same time, which companies like Google and Netflix capitalized on by building high bandwidth services on top of it) but since Google and Netflix are capable of manipulating consent of internet users and will not let FCC rollback "net neutrality", ISPs will…

Why not give good service and pass costs to customers?

Americans are already paying a shit ton for internet access. Any increase in price is artificial.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#13

Post by anotherbrownguy »

shuntress wrote: post #8
anotherbrownguy wrote: post #4

It's unfair to ISPs (some of it is their own doing like introducing "unlimited data" purely based on the assumption that most users wouldn't use their data at the same time, which companies like Google and Netflix capitalized on by building high bandwidth services on top of it) but since Google and Netflix are capable of manipulating consent of internet users and will not let FCC rollback "net neutrality", ISPs will…

Why not give good service and pass costs to customers?

Because they think they still have an option to pass the cost to companies like Google and Netflix and then use that money to increase their business and hence have an opportunity to provide good service... which is much better than investing in better infrastructure and customer service and then trying to get customers to pay more. Once they realize that internet companies will continue to use propaganda and not let it happen, they will have to take another route... which will be to keep providing the same service and keep maintaining their monopoly.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#14

Post by _5ysi »

byuu wrote: post #3

I'm all for everyone commenting so at least it's well known how far this FCC is going against public opinion, and encourage everyone to make their voices heard. But, and I hate to be the cynic here, does anyone really believe that even if all 323 million Americans commented in opposition to killing net neutrality, that Ajit Pai would relent? It's all but guaranteed he's going to do this. The only question is when, no…

Its a system for commenting, not voting. Of course any American with an opinion should be encouraged to comment but if all 323 million actually did, that would not be productive.

The bot programmers and TV programs on both sides don't seem to respect this.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#15

Post by frou_dh »

colanderman wrote: post #6
anotherbrownguy wrote: post #4

It's unfair to ISPs (some of it is their own doing like introducing "unlimited data" purely based on the assumption that most users wouldn't use their data at the same time, which companies like Google and Netflix capitalized on by building high bandwidth services on top of it) but since Google and Netflix are capable of manipulating consent of internet users and will not let FCC rollback "net neutrality", ISPs will…

ISPs are always free to throttle all services. Or ( gasp ) stop lying about so-called "unlimited" plans.

Maybe the word unlimited should just be expunged from the dictionary, because so many real-world uses of it are vulnerable to deconstruction.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#16

Post by anotherbrownguy »

shuntress wrote: post #10
anotherbrownguy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, that is exactly what they'll end up doing. Hope you have alternatives.

Net Neutrality is the idea that ISP cannot target only specific addresses/services when they throttle your connection.

I know what Google and Netflix want to tell you what it is but I also know what it actually is (https://www.fcc.gov/document/restoring-internet-freedom-noti...).

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#17

Post by jcadam »

anotherbrownguy wrote: post #7
colanderman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ISPs are always free to throttle all services. Or ( gasp ) stop lying about so-called "unlimited" plans.

Don't worry, that is exactly what they'll end up doing. Hope you have alternatives.

AT&T Uverse has instituted a 1TB monthly cap on residential internet service. Unless you also buy TV service, in which case it's unlimited. Clearly they're targeting customers who want to stream all of their TV via sling etc. with this.

Now, the AT&T small business-class internet (which I've just recently switched to) is still unlimited, though it does cost more.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#18

Post by _5ysi »

cjslep wrote: post #9
anotherbrownguy wrote: post #4

It's unfair to ISPs (some of it is their own doing like introducing "unlimited data" purely based on the assumption that most users wouldn't use their data at the same time, which companies like Google and Netflix capitalized on by building high bandwidth services on top of it) but since Google and Netflix are capable of manipulating consent of internet users and will not let FCC rollback "net neutrality", ISPs will…

Maybe running with net neutrality should be the next ISP innovation? It's clear that there's enough consumer market demand that they could make money from it, I don't understand where the ISP's tunnel vision of "only way to innovate is if net neutrality is killed" comes from.

If there is a law or federal rule, that usually implies there are not sufficient market forces behind whatever we still think should/shouldn't be done.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#19

Post by aphextron »

byuu wrote: post #3

I'm all for everyone commenting so at least it's well known how far this FCC is going against public opinion, and encourage everyone to make their voices heard. But, and I hate to be the cynic here, does anyone really believe that even if all 323 million Americans commented in opposition to killing net neutrality, that Ajit Pai would relent? It's all but guaranteed he's going to do this. The only question is when, no…

This is just a microcosm of the greater political climate created in the US over the past 40 or so years. Business interests completely control every single legislative decision made. We're all just along for the ride now.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#20

Post by _5ysi »

shuntress wrote: post #10
anotherbrownguy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, that is exactly what they'll end up doing. Hope you have alternatives.

Net Neutrality is the idea that ISP cannot target only specific addresses/services when they throttle your connection.

This idea is the problem with net neutrality.

The reason people support net neutrality is that ISPs are monopolies even more so than Google, Facebook, etc and we understand that monopolies are unfair, corrupt, renters, etc. Therefore it easy to be blinded into supporting rules that purport to punish ISPs, even if the rule itself is illogical and loaded for unintended consequences.

Reasonable people can oppose Net Neutrality for the economic illogicality of an enterprise not being allowed to negotiate prices with its customers.

What people want is laws punishing monopoly ISPs. No one cares if Google has to pay a fraction of their ad revenue to help pay for serving them bloated ad data they didn't even ask for.

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