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China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

thediplomat.com

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Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#11

Post by neya »

paradite wrote: post #8
neya wrote: post #5

There are a dozen popular live streaming apps in China where one can simply just stream what you're doing to everyone on the site and people can just watch them for hours. You can think of it like Instagram stories or Snapchat per se. Or even Facebook live. This isn't some western media propaganda. I tried one of them very recently (I don't want to give them any undeserved marketing), they allowed me to sign up and t…

To create a facebook account, you need either mobile phone number or email. To have an email, you still need a mobile phone number to register for gmail (the most popular choice). To have a mobile phone number, you need your passport or ID. Yes, in some cases you can get phone numbers without passport, but then again you can also get IDs and fake passports easily in China if you want.

> To have an email, you still need a mobile phone number to register for gmail (the most popular choice).

> but then you again can also get IDs and fake passports easily in China if you want.

I agree to a certain extent that your passport is indirectly linked to these online services.

Where I don't agree is that you can still use an email service that doesn't require you to provide your phone numbers and you can use it to sign up for Facebook (not a legal offence, there is still a way to access the service).

Use of fake passports is a criminal offence (And there isn't a viable alternative to use the service without committing a criminal offence).

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#12

Post by bitL »

So technology, once a progressive force, is now going to be used to conserve dysfunction. Can't wait to see the latest Deep Learning advancements used to enforce whatever is deemed appropriate. Future generations are done with approved high-school popularity contests enforced everywhere. I am wondering if China is going for another 2000 years of no advancements, like it used to when it exhausted its cultural roots before.

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#13

Post by bitL »

jackgavigan wrote: post #7
neya wrote: post #5

There are a dozen popular live streaming apps in China where one can simply just stream what you're doing to everyone on the site and people can just watch them for hours. You can think of it like Instagram stories or Snapchat per se. Or even Facebook live. This isn't some western media propaganda. I tried one of them very recently (I don't want to give them any undeserved marketing), they allowed me to sign up and t…

> Imagine, Facebook asking you to upload your passport before you do a live stream. It wouldn't surprise me if a Western government (probably the UK's) considers introducing legislation to require exactly this in the not-too-distant future, most likely under the guise of preventing the spread of extremist propaganda. If they do, companies like Facebook and YouTube will face a choice between acceding to the new regula…

If it comes to having the same legislation in the UK, it'd likely ban decentralized web as well, perhaps requiring submitting your ID upon connecting to Internet every single time.

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#14

Post by josteink »

paradite wrote: post #8
neya wrote: post #5

There are a dozen popular live streaming apps in China where one can simply just stream what you're doing to everyone on the site and people can just watch them for hours. You can think of it like Instagram stories or Snapchat per se. Or even Facebook live. This isn't some western media propaganda. I tried one of them very recently (I don't want to give them any undeserved marketing), they allowed me to sign up and t…

To create a facebook account, you need either mobile phone number or email. To have an email, you still need a mobile phone number to register for gmail (the most popular choice). To have a mobile phone number, you need your passport or ID. Yes, in some cases you can get phone numbers without passport, but then again you can also get IDs and fake passports easily in China if you want.

> To have an email, you still need a mobile phone number to register for gmail

So don't use gmail?

That wasn't hard, was it?

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#15

Post by paradite »

neya wrote: post #11
paradite wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To create a facebook account, you need either mobile phone number or email. To have an email, you still need a mobile phone number to register for gmail (the most popular choice). To have a mobile phone number, you need your passport or ID. Yes, in some cases you can get phone numbers without passport, but then again you can also get IDs and fake passports easily in China if you want.

> To have an email, you still need a mobile phone number to register for gmail (the most popular choice). > but then you again can also get IDs and fake passports easily in China if you want. I agree to a certain extent that your passport is indirectly linked to these online services. Where I don't agree is that you can still use an email service that doesn't require you to provide your phone numbers and you can use…

To not use real names on Facebook seems to be a violation of ToS as well, and you still need to verify real names in order to use pseudonym:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_real-name_policy_cont...

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#16

Post by paradite »

josteink wrote: post #14
paradite wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To create a facebook account, you need either mobile phone number or email. To have an email, you still need a mobile phone number to register for gmail (the most popular choice). To have a mobile phone number, you need your passport or ID. Yes, in some cases you can get phone numbers without passport, but then again you can also get IDs and fake passports easily in China if you want.

> To have an email, you still need a mobile phone number to register for gmail So don't use gmail? That wasn't hard, was it?

So, you are not actively using a Google account?

It is one thing to have alternatives, but to actually execute the switch to alternatives seems near impossible. Breaking away from Google is already hard, breaking away from Google + Facebook (which has your phone number on WhatsApp) seems impossible.

Not to sound too personal, but I thought everyone pretty much gave in to Google already.

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#17

Post by josteink »

paradite wrote: post #16
josteink wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To have an email, you still need a mobile phone number to register for gmail So don't use gmail? That wasn't hard, was it?

So, you are not actively using a Google account? It is one thing to have alternatives, but to actually execute the switch to alternatives seems near impossible. Breaking away from Google is already hard, breaking away from Google + Facebook (which has your phone number on WhatsApp) seems impossible. Not to sound too personal, but I thought everyone pretty much gave in to Google already.

Wrong assumption. There's loads of people out there without a Google-account.

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#18

Post by lotsofpulp »

jackgavigan wrote: post #7
neya wrote: post #5

There are a dozen popular live streaming apps in China where one can simply just stream what you're doing to everyone on the site and people can just watch them for hours. You can think of it like Instagram stories or Snapchat per se. Or even Facebook live. This isn't some western media propaganda. I tried one of them very recently (I don't want to give them any undeserved marketing), they allowed me to sign up and t…

> Imagine, Facebook asking you to upload your passport before you do a live stream. It wouldn't surprise me if a Western government (probably the UK's) considers introducing legislation to require exactly this in the not-too-distant future, most likely under the guise of preventing the spread of extremist propaganda. If they do, companies like Facebook and YouTube will face a choice between acceding to the new regula…

Also under the guise of child porn. Terrorism and "won't anybody think of the children" are a winning combo for people looking to restrict liberties.

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#19

Post by paradite »

josteink wrote: post #17
paradite wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you are not actively using a Google account? It is one thing to have alternatives, but to actually execute the switch to alternatives seems near impossible. Breaking away from Google is already hard, breaking away from Google + Facebook (which has your phone number on WhatsApp) seems impossible. Not to sound too personal, but I thought everyone pretty much gave in to Google already.

Wrong assumption. There's loads of people out there without a Google-account.

And those are the more savvy users who actually care about their privacy a lot.

If I may draw another parallel:

There are also loads of people out there who can migrate out of the system (China/Google) if they don't like. And those who stay with the system (China/Google) seems to be fine with the system knowing their identity.

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#20

Post by MikkoFinell »

bitL wrote: post #12

So technology, once a progressive force, is now going to be used to conserve dysfunction. Can't wait to see the latest Deep Learning advancements used to enforce whatever is deemed appropriate. Future generations are done with approved high-school popularity contests enforced everywhere. I am wondering if China is going for another 2000 years of no advancements, like it used to when it exhausted its cultural roots be…

On the one hand those advancements are being used to enforce users only view whats deemed appropriate, while on the other hand it's used to maximize your time-on-screen by stealing your attention in increasingly ingenious ways. I believe we are already past the event horizon on a dystopian singularity that will land us somewhere in the middle of Orwell and Huxley.
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