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University of California Proposes Online Degrees

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Re: University of California Proposes Online Degrees

#11

Post by anigbrowl »

rick888 wrote: post #9
noelchurchill wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could let everyone in, they don't have to pass everyone. Let the cream rise to the top and let everyone else drop out. As long as the courses were rigorous enough then the degree would maintain it's credibility.

"They could let everyone in, they don't have to pass everyone. Let the cream rise to the top and let everyone else drop out. As long as the courses were rigorous enough then the degree would maintain it's credibility." Most colleges just don't have room for everyone. If they opened up the flood-gates of admission, many people, whom would otherwise be able to get into college, would be left out in the cold because the…

many people...would be left out...because they allowed everyone in

Logical paradoxes aside, surely the benefit of online teaching is that you can do basic filtering as easily as you can disseminate the coursework. Of course, that means employing crude metrics like multiple-choice tests, but such metrics play a large part in the existing admissions process.

Re: University of California Proposes Online Degrees

#12

Post by rick888 »

SamAtt wrote: post #5
rick888 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There is absolutely no reason to be selective in an online college unless you are trying to create artificial scarcity." If every college let everyone in, it would be worthless. Colleges need to be selective. They should base admission on grades.

For that to be true you have to argue that College grades are meaningless (because if you base your judgments on College grades you can let everyone in and judge them based on how they do once they're in). To take your logic a step further you're saying the worth in a degree is based on a person's ability to get into an institution. So essentially what you're saying is we should judge people in the job market based o…

"So essentially what you're saying is we should judge people in the job market based on their High School performance which, IMHO, is kind of ridiculous."

No, I'm saying that letting everyone into a university is a bad idea because most universities don't have the resources to properly teach this amount of students at a college level. It will also cheapen the experience for the people that do attend.

I also don't really see a problem. If you don't care enough about your life to get moderately good grades in high school (which isn't that difficult), you shouldn't be going to college.

Re: University of California Proposes Online Degrees

#13

Post by jey »

rick888 wrote: post #3
yummyfajitas wrote: post #2

"We want to do a highly selective, fully online, credit-bearing program on a large scale - and that has not been done," said UC Berkeley law school Dean Christopher Edley There is absolutely no reason to be selective in an online college unless you are trying to create artificial scarcity. This quote shows just how pointless college is.

"There is absolutely no reason to be selective in an online college unless you are trying to create artificial scarcity." If every college let everyone in, it would be worthless. Colleges need to be selective. They should base admission on grades.

Why grades? Do they actually measure anything coherent?

Re: University of California Proposes Online Degrees

#14

Post by noelchurchill »

rick888 wrote: post #9
noelchurchill wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could let everyone in, they don't have to pass everyone. Let the cream rise to the top and let everyone else drop out. As long as the courses were rigorous enough then the degree would maintain it's credibility.

"They could let everyone in, they don't have to pass everyone. Let the cream rise to the top and let everyone else drop out. As long as the courses were rigorous enough then the degree would maintain it's credibility." Most colleges just don't have room for everyone. If they opened up the flood-gates of admission, many people, whom would otherwise be able to get into college, would be left out in the cold because the…

It's a virtual college they're talking about. You take the courses from your living room or whatever. You don't actually go to the college. So yes, there IS room.

Re: University of California Proposes Online Degrees

#15

Post by awongh »

rick888 wrote: post #10
aaco wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If every college let everyone in, it would be worthless." I think that HN, while not a college, might be a counterexample for this idea. Here everyone can join and communicate, and yet we can maintain a high level of communication. The ones who don't fit are quickly flagged or simply won't come back again. I think selectivity is good, however it doesn't need to be enforced in the admission step, it will happen in th…

"Here everyone can join and communicate, and yet we can maintain a high level of communication. The ones who don't fit are quickly flagged or simply won't come back again." Universities aren't run by the students. There is only so much space in a university. I think selectivity is good, however it doesn't need to be enforced in the admission step, it will happen in the middle of the process. People who would not be a…

However, would you like to go to a university that is just a glorified forum that is taught by people that might no the subjects, but not necessarily a professor?

Isn't that kinda how it is now? At least the part about your teachers being TAs and not professors.... At least a forum has some level of interaction.

Re: University of California Proposes Online Degrees

#16

Post by woodall »

noelchurchill wrote: post #14
rick888 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They could let everyone in, they don't have to pass everyone. Let the cream rise to the top and let everyone else drop out. As long as the courses were rigorous enough then the degree would maintain it's credibility." Most colleges just don't have room for everyone. If they opened up the flood-gates of admission, many people, whom would otherwise be able to get into college, would be left out in the cold because the…

It's a virtual college they're talking about. You take the courses from your living room or whatever. You don't actually go to the college. So yes, there IS room.

There is physical/virtual room, however, the professors may not have the ability to handle all the students. This does not differ from the 200 student classes at a regular university, but many on-line professors do all the work them selves- no student aides.

I have heard mixed reviews from many academics on the subject of online instruction. Some think it "spoils the crop", while others think it helps those in difficult situations- where going to a university is not an option.

I feel that education is education, in that person will only get back what they put in. Hybrid, IMO, provide a nice middle ground. There types of programs allow a student to do readings, tests, and other assignments online, but at some point require them to meet with the professor to go over- in more depth- some of the subject content. Again, a person will only get out of this what they put in, so if they meet with the professor and ask no questions they will get little in return.

Re: University of California Proposes Online Degrees

#17

Post by woodall »

anigbrowl wrote: post #11
rick888 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They could let everyone in, they don't have to pass everyone. Let the cream rise to the top and let everyone else drop out. As long as the courses were rigorous enough then the degree would maintain it's credibility." Most colleges just don't have room for everyone. If they opened up the flood-gates of admission, many people, whom would otherwise be able to get into college, would be left out in the cold because the…

many people...would be left out...because they allowed everyone in Logical paradoxes aside, surely the benefit of online teaching is that you can do basic filtering as easily as you can disseminate the coursework. Of course, that means employing crude metrics like multiple-choice tests, but such metrics play a large part in the existing admissions process.

I had to take an online course last year. I found it interesting because the instructor had questions on the exams where we had to write essays on a certain topics. The online course I took before that, 3 years earlier, only consisted of multiple choice and True/False.

I talked to the professor after the course just to make sure I understood the content, and one of his remarks was that student's essays where too short. The problem, I think, was that text boxes were ~10 rows, so the students would fill in those 10 rows and think they were done.

Online learning is still new, but I think there are tons of improvements that can be made in order to make it a bit easier for everyone to understand.

Re: University of California Proposes Online Degrees

#18

Post by yummyfajitas »

woodall wrote: post #16
noelchurchill wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a virtual college they're talking about. You take the courses from your living room or whatever. You don't actually go to the college. So yes, there IS room.

There is physical/virtual room, however, the professors may not have the ability to handle all the students. This does not differ from the 200 student classes at a regular university, but many on-line professors do all the work them selves- no student aides. I have heard mixed reviews from many academics on the subject of online instruction. Some think it "spoils the crop", while others think it helps those in diffic…

There is physical/virtual room, however, the professors may not have the ability to handle all the students.

A single, quality professor is needed to generate content. Content scales.

An army of cheap drones are needed to grade, assuming all grading is done manually. You could probably get a grader for 50 students for $3000-5000 [1]. That's less than $100/student. As long as students pay more than $100/course, online classes will scale.

[1] This is the pay a PTL will receive for teaching a single in-person math course.

Re: University of California Proposes Online Degrees

#19

Post by lsc »

rick888 wrote: post #3
yummyfajitas wrote: post #2

"We want to do a highly selective, fully online, credit-bearing program on a large scale - and that has not been done," said UC Berkeley law school Dean Christopher Edley There is absolutely no reason to be selective in an online college unless you are trying to create artificial scarcity. This quote shows just how pointless college is.

"There is absolutely no reason to be selective in an online college unless you are trying to create artificial scarcity." If every college let everyone in, it would be worthless. Colleges need to be selective. They should base admission on grades.

if colleges teach you no valuable skills, and only function as a way for employers to 'pre screen' candidates, sure, you are right. (of course, if schools don't teach anything that increases a worker's productivity, then they are pretty useless as a 'pre screen' too.)

However, one would hope that college would actually teach something, and would make the students more productive.

"But" you say "If everyone is more productive, won't their wages stay the same?"

sure, if everyone doubles their productivity, in a fair market, nobody will get a larger cut of the total economic output than they were getting before the productivity increase

However, if everyone's productivity doubles, there will be more economic output to divide. even if your percent of the pie stays the same, it's a bigger pie.

Of course, I'm ignoring inefficiencies here. Obviously, all groups try to maneuver such that they get a larger piece of the pie, but that happens all the time, not just in times of economic growth.

Re: University of California Proposes Online Degrees

#20

Post by coned88 »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #18
woodall wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is physical/virtual room, however, the professors may not have the ability to handle all the students. This does not differ from the 200 student classes at a regular university, but many on-line professors do all the work them selves- no student aides. I have heard mixed reviews from many academics on the subject of online instruction. Some think it "spoils the crop", while others think it helps those in diffic…

There is physical/virtual room, however, the professors may not have the ability to handle all the students. A single, quality professor is needed to generate content. Content scales. An army of cheap drones are needed to grade, assuming all grading is done manually. You could probably get a grader for 50 students for $3000-5000 [1]. That's less than $100/student. As long as students pay more than $100/course, online…

who answers questions during lecture? Who clarifies thought?
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