Startups should not use React • Hacker News Board

Re: Startups should not use React

#11

Post by jasonkester » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 6:08 AM UTC

I really like the idea behind this license.

They want to see a world where software patents no longer exist. So they write a term into their licensing that makes it really difficult for people who do like software patents to use their stuff.

I think I will move my projects over to a similar license. The only thing I would change would be to broaden it to invalidate if your company sued anybody over any patent.

If everybody did that, maybe software patents would finally go away.

Re: Startups should not use React

#12

Post by rtpg » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 6:13 AM UTC

danielrhodes wrote: post #10

Are companies getting asked about React in M&A due diligence or has any lawyer recommended this, because otherwise this post is pure clickbait.

code licenses come up in even simple funding rounds. IP happens in due diligence to avoid "oh actually this one freelancer owns all the code"-style situations.

Re: Startups should not use React

#13

Post by chrisco255 » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 6:20 AM UTC

Do most software startups even have patentable technology? I'm rather curious about this. Most consumer and SaaS apps I know of are built on non-patented software so I generally question this advice.

The fridge example was a case in point of how ridiculously low the odds of any company getting into patent litigation with Facebook are. To go to battle with FB you're gonna need millions and it's going to take years. That's not a light decision.

Re: Startups should not use React

#14

Post by pavanky » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 6:33 AM UTC

jasonkester wrote: post #11

I really like the idea behind this license. They want to see a world where software patents no longer exist. So they write a term into their licensing that makes it really difficult for people who do like software patents to use their stuff. I think I will move my projects over to a similar license. The only thing I would change would be to broaden it to invalidate if your company sued anybody over any patent. If eve…

This would only encourage fragmentation. Large companies have to resources to not use your software and create a competing product.

Re: Startups should not use React

#15

Post by sheetjs » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 6:50 AM UTC

There was a time when React was Apache v2! https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/3bbed150ab58a07b0c4fa... shows that license.

Has anyone seriously explored forking React from the last Apache v2 version?

Re: Startups should not use React

#16

Post by hoodoof » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 6:54 AM UTC

"Look, we were going to buy you for $500million but our thorough due diligence has turned over a rather nasty stone that you probably wished we didn't look under. You know what I mean don't you? YES - we found out your dirty little secret that you're using ReactJS. Due to this, we have decided to pull the deal in favor of your competitor who uses AngularJS. What you need to understand is that although you've cornered the market with your superb software and business model, we are dead serious about never buying companies that have built on ReactJS. We have a deep, and we think entirely valid, concern that Facebook will, at a point in time, suddenly pull the carpet from under you and Mark Zuckerberg will be laughing at us saying 'suckers... we sure got you with the whole ReactJS ruse didn't we!'"

"We're also not very enthused about you building on Amazon - surprised you'd take a risk like that, it doesn't indicate much business sense."

"Sorry to say, but your business, due to the ReactJS decision, is worth $0."

Re: Startups should not use React

#17

Post by guelo » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 6:55 AM UTC

This doesn't convince me. As a consumer patents and patent lawsuits are almost always bad. Patents reduce options in the market, lawsuits between companies waste resources, startups being acquired reduce market options. The only real argument is that it will prevent communities from forming. But I don't buy it. Open source needs competition too, monolythic ecosystems are bad. As an example, Apple didn't want to contribute to gcc so they created LLVM which is a boon to everybody.

Re: Startups should not use React

#18

Post by mattnewton » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 7:01 AM UTC

sheetjs wrote: post #15

There was a time when React was Apache v2! https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/3bbed150ab58a07b0c4fa... shows that license. Has anyone seriously explored forking React from the last Apache v2 version?

AFAICT that version still had patents.txt no?

Re: Startups should not use React

#19

Post by k__ » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 7:01 AM UTC

notaboutdave wrote: post #8

Easy workaround: Install Preact. No code changes required, at least not for me last year.

even the creator of preact said he doesn't know if he infringed FB patents with the creation of preact, because nobody knows what React covering patents FB holds.

Re: Startups should not use React

#20

Post by h8liu » Mon, Aug 21, 2017, 7:06 AM UTC

guelo wrote: post #17

This doesn't convince me. As a consumer patents and patent lawsuits are almost always bad. Patents reduce options in the market, lawsuits between companies waste resources, startups being acquired reduce market options. The only real argument is that it will prevent communities from forming. But I don't buy it. Open source needs competition too, monolythic ecosystems are bad. As an example, Apple didn't want to contr…

apple did not create llvm. llvm started as an academic project, and apple took advantage from its ecosystem -- same as many other companies did.