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In what language do deaf people think?

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Re: In what language do deaf people think?

#11

Post by frooxie »

Niten wrote: post #8
hunterclarke wrote: post #2

Wow that is mind-blowing. I could not possibly imagine a world without words, especially the ones in my head. It goes against every intuition I have to believe in thought that lacks language.

For my part I know that I don't strictly think in words, or pictures, or any other such representations. I'm sharply aware of this because I'm relatively slow putting thoughts into words; so when I have some thought, I can consciously hold that thought in my head for a moment before the corresponding words come to mind. For instance, suppose I realize I'm out of milk. It'll come to mind that I should go to a grocery…

I don't think it's a dyslexia thing - at least not necessarily. As I wrote below, I also don't think in words, but I don't have any language problems that I know of (at least, I understand 6-8 languages, learned to read extremely early, and spell better than almost anyone I know).

Re: In what language do deaf people think?

#12

Post by wheels »

tkahn6 wrote: post #3

I've also often wondered if the language one thinks in has any effect on cognition or the "efficiency" of thought (if that even makes sense).

That's called the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, and has largely fallen out of favor in modern (Chomskyan, universal grammar) linguistics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity

Re: In what language do deaf people think?

#13

Post by DanielBMarkham »

My aunt was a deaf-mute (That's what she called herself. I have no idea if the term is pejorative) Her husband, my uncle, was blind. So she would sign things that he couldn't see, and he would yell at her and she couldn't hear them.

Made for a great marriage.

(Joking aside, it was really interesting to watch them communicate. He would hold her hands while she "spoke" Then she would hold his hands -- so he knew she was there -- while he spoke back to her. Worked very well, actually. They had two beautiful kids that grew up to become advocates and workers in the hearing and sight-impaired communities)

It was an amazing family. As I recall, both had jobs outside the home. Both were avid readers, writers, and participated in several civic organizations. I used to love visiting them as a kid.

Re: In what language do deaf people think?

#14

Post by ars »

tkahn6 wrote: post #3

I've also often wondered if the language one thinks in has any effect on cognition or the "efficiency" of thought (if that even makes sense).

Yes, but the difference is not the language, but the words. The complexity of the words.

A single word can hold a large amount of meaning, but to the brain that single word uses the same "storage" and any other word.

So by having many complex words a person can think more "efficiently".

This is why many fields have jargon - the jargon helps the thinking process, by essentially acting like file compression - you compress an entire concept into a single word, and you can now think about some big complicated thing by using a single word.

This is also why language have so MANY words. English has something like half a million of them. Yet it would be totally possible to replace the vast majority of them with simpler, but more, words.

But doing so has drawbacks to thinking ability.

Re: In what language do deaf people think?

#15

Post by RiderOfGiraffes »

wheels wrote: post #12
tkahn6 wrote: post #3

I've also often wondered if the language one thinks in has any effect on cognition or the "efficiency" of thought (if that even makes sense).

That's called the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, and has largely fallen out of favor in modern (Chomskyan, universal grammar) linguistics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity

Yes, although most people who talk about the SWH don't actually quote what was originally said. The Wikipedia article is pretty good, but should be regarded as a starting point rather than as definitive.

There is still some dispute over some of the related issues. I know some linguists who separate SWH from "Linguistic relativity." It is clear that there are ideas we can have without necessarily having the language to express them, but similarly, in groups with fluent polyglots the language in use shifts regularly according to the subject/topic. It seems clear that polyglots will prefer one language over another, and that seems to be correlated with the subject, but research in this subject is hard, and clear, unambiguous and uncontroversial results are rare.

Re: In what language do deaf people think?

#16

Post by phuff »

wheels wrote: post #12
tkahn6 wrote: post #3

I've also often wondered if the language one thinks in has any effect on cognition or the "efficiency" of thought (if that even makes sense).

That's called the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, and has largely fallen out of favor in modern (Chomskyan, universal grammar) linguistics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity

And modern, Chomskyan, universal grammar linguistics has fallen out of favor among most post-modern linguists everywhere outside of Boston ;)

Re: In what language do deaf people think?

#17

Post by JBiserkov »

Niten wrote: post #8
hunterclarke wrote: post #2

Wow that is mind-blowing. I could not possibly imagine a world without words, especially the ones in my head. It goes against every intuition I have to believe in thought that lacks language.

For my part I know that I don't strictly think in words, or pictures, or any other such representations. I'm sharply aware of this because I'm relatively slow putting thoughts into words; so when I have some thought, I can consciously hold that thought in my head for a moment before the corresponding words come to mind. For instance, suppose I realize I'm out of milk. It'll come to mind that I should go to a grocery…

Especially when I'm thinking fast thoughts - just assembling some concepts in my mind to see if they fit - I switch to English(not my native language) because it's words are shorter.

Re: In what language do deaf people think?

#18

Post by drinian »

10ren wrote: post #10

Communities evolve language spontaneously. Evidence of this is a school of deaf children (in Brazil IIRC) who were not taught sign language (due to lack of a teacher, due to budget). They developed their own, which became quite complex and of comparable sophistication to other human languages. Taken with the conclusion of the submission that abstract thought requires language for its development, this leads us to the…

The school was in Nicaragua, and it's been of great use to researchers: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2010/06/2...

Re: In what language do deaf people think?

#19

Post by zb »

hunterclarke wrote: post #2

Wow that is mind-blowing. I could not possibly imagine a world without words, especially the ones in my head. It goes against every intuition I have to believe in thought that lacks language.

You should read Richard Feynman's book What Do You Care What Other People Think. There's a really fascinating chapter about this.

Re: In what language do deaf people think?

#20

Post by sublimit »

Niten wrote: post #8
hunterclarke wrote: post #2

Wow that is mind-blowing. I could not possibly imagine a world without words, especially the ones in my head. It goes against every intuition I have to believe in thought that lacks language.

For my part I know that I don't strictly think in words, or pictures, or any other such representations. I'm sharply aware of this because I'm relatively slow putting thoughts into words; so when I have some thought, I can consciously hold that thought in my head for a moment before the corresponding words come to mind. For instance, suppose I realize I'm out of milk. It'll come to mind that I should go to a grocery…

I'm a bad speaker because I think so abstractly. I'm already thinking of the following concepts and their relations as I'm speaking, which is why I tend to stutter and pause constantly. I often find myself thinking in English because it has some representations my language doesn't, but there are things I can't conveniently express in English either. Because of this, I've been laying the blueprints for an artificial language of my own that would follow my line of thought. Synesthesia helps.
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