We have to be steadfast to the idea that defending the free speech that you might find repulsive is defending your own right to free speech.
Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression
11–20 of 204 posts
Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression
#12Should all forms of speech be defended and accessible in a public domain? Should instructions on how to make explosives be accessible and defended?
Most importantly, understand that it is not the speech which is being defended.
Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression
#13The takeaway from this for me is not, "Don't get rid of Nazis", but rather, "Have a clear criteria and process for when you will remove content. Follow that process." Great, 100% agreed with that. Be clear and up front about terms of service, and be clear and open when they are violated. That said, I'm not 100% agreed that "Whatever you use against Neo-Nazis will be used 'against the ones you love'." That's a slipper…
Ok then, lets give Trump, the DOJ and Jeff Sessions the impetus to start drafting legislation to fight 'internet hate speech' and see what they come up with.
edit: > That's a slippery slope argument
Its not. These discussions will be taken over by the political establishment and the courts very quickly with very real consequences.
Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression
#14The takeaway from this for me is not, "Don't get rid of Nazis", but rather, "Have a clear criteria and process for when you will remove content. Follow that process." Great, 100% agreed with that. Be clear and up front about terms of service, and be clear and open when they are violated. That said, I'm not 100% agreed that "Whatever you use against Neo-Nazis will be used 'against the ones you love'." That's a slipper…
I'm not 100% agreed that "Whatever you use against Neo-Nazis will be used 'against the ones you love'." That's a slippery slope argument that I personally don't believe. Neo-nazis are such a different class of evil, that it's hard for me to see the same practices being used against someone who is not them.
You could say the same about digital surveillance of potential terrorists.
Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression
#15The takeaway from this for me is not, "Don't get rid of Nazis", but rather, "Have a clear criteria and process for when you will remove content. Follow that process." Great, 100% agreed with that. Be clear and up front about terms of service, and be clear and open when they are violated. That said, I'm not 100% agreed that "Whatever you use against Neo-Nazis will be used 'against the ones you love'." That's a slipper…
This is already happening.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/24/safe-spaces-un...
Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression
#16The takeaway from this for me is not, "Don't get rid of Nazis", but rather, "Have a clear criteria and process for when you will remove content. Follow that process." Great, 100% agreed with that. Be clear and up front about terms of service, and be clear and open when they are violated. That said, I'm not 100% agreed that "Whatever you use against Neo-Nazis will be used 'against the ones you love'." That's a slipper…
Well, didn't the Nazis themselves prevent people from voicing concerns for the Jews? I guess I don't see how that's not the same thing, except that it was the bad guys who did it?
Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression
#17The takeaway from this for me is not, "Don't get rid of Nazis", but rather, "Have a clear criteria and process for when you will remove content. Follow that process." Great, 100% agreed with that. Be clear and up front about terms of service, and be clear and open when they are violated. That said, I'm not 100% agreed that "Whatever you use against Neo-Nazis will be used 'against the ones you love'." That's a slipper…
> That's a slippery slope argument that I personally don't believe.
It's not a matter of belief. It's happened time and time again. One prominent example is hitler and nazi germany. When they gained power, they used the same powers the previous governments/institutions/etc used against them to ban and silence everyone else.
> Neo-nazis are such a different class of evil
Evil is evil. There aren't "special" evil. What does that even mean?
> that it's hard for me to see the same practices being used against someone who is not them.
Are you serious? All over the world the same things are done. Ever hear of the red scare? The persecution of the jews in the US and europe? The persecution of blacks, civil rights activist, etc? Critics of royalty in thailand are being locked up. Silly tourists giving nazi salutes are being locked up and fined.
That's the point of precedence. If you set it, then anyone else can do it too. Are people just this unaware of history and current events?
It was our defense of free speech rights in the US that protected atheist, gays, civil rights activist, etc to speak. As hard as it is to believe, there was once a time when atheists, gays, civil rights activists and many others were considered just as vile as neo-nazis. There was a time when being gay would mean you couldn't get a job or you could even be forced to suicide ( ever hear of alan turing )?
Society always shifts. Free speech rights are there to protect us from the whims of societal/government/cultural change.
Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression
#18The takeaway from this for me is not, "Don't get rid of Nazis", but rather, "Have a clear criteria and process for when you will remove content. Follow that process." Great, 100% agreed with that. Be clear and up front about terms of service, and be clear and open when they are violated. That said, I'm not 100% agreed that "Whatever you use against Neo-Nazis will be used 'against the ones you love'." That's a slipper…
Apparently the term "neo-nazi" doesn't really carry the same meaning it used to, going by the number of people who are being accused of being neo-nazis in the last week.
Are you so sure the same tactics will not be used against non-literal nazis? Or that non-nazis won't be named as such in order to then use the same practices on them "justifiably"?
If there's one thing we know with absolute confidence, is that if it's "just to protect the children" or "just to use against the nazis", it's really just that the technique/technology is still in beta test, and GA release is coming soon.
Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression
#19The takeaway from this for me is not, "Don't get rid of Nazis", but rather, "Have a clear criteria and process for when you will remove content. Follow that process." Great, 100% agreed with that. Be clear and up front about terms of service, and be clear and open when they are violated. That said, I'm not 100% agreed that "Whatever you use against Neo-Nazis will be used 'against the ones you love'." That's a slipper…
Well, didn't the Nazis themselves prevent people from voicing concerns for the Jews? I guess I don't see how that's not the same thing, except that it was the bad guys who did it?
The implicit assertion you've made is that Google, Cloudflare, and Godaddy are acting as a moral equivalent to the Nazis?
Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression
#20"It’s unclear whether this is for a limited amount of time, or whether Google has decided to effectively take ownership of the dailystormer.com domain permanently"
Wait, what, they can do this? So if I get Google to host my domain they can just take it at will? Given the value of some domains that's insane. Google must be on shaky legal ground here.