The e-mail Larry Page should have written to James Damore • Hacker News Board

Re: The e-mail Larry Page should have written to James Damore

#11

Post by devmunchies » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:03 PM UTC

adamnemecek wrote: post #8

"Have you ever noticed how no one takes sentences that start “I’m not a racist, but…” at face value? Here’s why, in the words of Jon Snow in “Game of Thrones” (season 7, episode 1). When Sansa Stark tells him: “They respect you, they really do, but…,” Snow laughs and comes back with: “What did father used to say? Everything before the word ‘but’ is horseshit.”" Lol, dem millennials with their games of throne, avocado…

a quote from a fictional realm in a fictional letter...

followed by some stereotypes

Re: The e-mail Larry Page should have written to James Damore

#12

Post by IanDrake » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:05 PM UTC

Decries "unsupported claims" then goes on the make a whole bunch of unsupported claims.

Not very compelling, which is too bad because I was hoping to read something a lot more succinct.

Re: The e-mail Larry Page should have written to James Damore

#13

Post by keepper » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:05 PM UTC

Great article.

If anyone who agrees with James Damore's point is motivated to see the reason these arguments are summarily dismissed by many, I recommend reading "the mismeasure of man", by Stephen Jay Gould.

The idea of biological determinism has one fatal flaw... the grouping.

Re: The e-mail Larry Page should have written to James Damore

#14

Post by maehwasu » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:06 PM UTC

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #6

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #5

> Your memo was a great example of what’s called “motivated reasoning” Guess he'll have to join the throngs of people fired for motivated reasoning to arrive at 'diversity is strength' and 'everyone is equal'.

I see you are interested in logical fallacies. You may also be interested in the one called "tu quoque."

By that logic, you are never allowed to notice the unbalanced application of a rule or principle.

Slightly off-topic, most "logical fallacies" actually have very important heuristic uses. Just to get the ball rolling, "ad hominem" becomes extremely useful in a world in which we have limited access to full information, and have to constantly evaluate the reliability of outside parties.

Re: The e-mail Larry Page should have written to James Damore

#15

Post by mosdave » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:07 PM UTC

so not only has the Economist taken to quoting Game of Thrones, but it now--taking as axiomatic the validity of said quote--projects this assumed validity onto the interpretation of real-world events? What a time to be alive.

Re: The e-mail Larry Page should have written to James Damore

#16

Post by alexandercrohde » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:08 PM UTC

metalliqaz wrote: post #7

Pretty good article. The economist can be counted on for insightful takes on current events. I recommend everyone add it to their daily reading list. There is one problem with the article, though. It's not going to bring along any of the right-leaning people who are upset about anti-male discrimination and other such things. The article opens (smartly) by calling out “motivated reasoning”. But by the end, it referenc…

I entirely disagree on the "Motivated reasoning," point. Making that suggestion serves to discredit an argument without providing evidence (and complicates the debate) and it's doubly un-useful because either side could use it here (or in almost any argument)

Re: The e-mail Larry Page should have written to James Damore

#17

Post by xname2 » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

Really great reasoning here, looking forward to see football and basketball teams start to recruit more Asians.

Re: The e-mail Larry Page should have written to James Damore

#18

Post by Chris2048 » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #6

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #5

> Your memo was a great example of what’s called “motivated reasoning” Guess he'll have to join the throngs of people fired for motivated reasoning to arrive at 'diversity is strength' and 'everyone is equal'.

I see you are interested in logical fallacies. You may also be interested in the one called "tu quoque."

That only counts for logical arguments. There is an assumption that if a reason is given for firing someone, anyone should be fired under the same circumstances on basis of fair treatment.

Re: The e-mail Larry Page should have written to James Damore

#19

Post by alexandercrohde » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #10

What a dumb pretense for an article. If you want to write something criticizing James' memo, just do that . Don't use Larry Page as a scenario for your message and headline.

I almost wonder if they're hoping people will misread the article, think it was an email, and share it on that mistake. It's strange to contrive hypothetical headers.

Re: The e-mail Larry Page should have written to James Damore

#20

Post by trevyn » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:13 PM UTC

mosdave wrote: post #15

so not only has the Economist taken to quoting Game of Thrones, but it now--taking as axiomatic the validity of said quote--projects this assumed validity onto the interpretation of real-world events? What a time to be alive.

Generalizing from fictional evidence! This is a thing!

http://lesswrong.com/lw/k9/the_logical_fallacy_of_generaliza...