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ATLAS sees first direct evidence of light-by-light scattering at high energy

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Re: ATLAS sees first direct evidence of light-by-light scattering at high energy

#11
post #4
post #3

The bit about the trigger was interesting. Is that software/firmware? Or is that a hardware trigger they are discussing.

I think at the moment they use a level 1 hardware trigger and a level 2 software trigger. ALICE is moving to a pure software trigger.

So is LHCb. The two experiments may share a data centre on the Prevessin site.

Re: ATLAS sees first direct evidence of light-by-light scattering at high energy

#15

Can someone explain this in easier terms for a layman like myself?

They think they got photons to bounce off each other. It's a really old prediction but really rare, so hard to prove. They think it happened 13 times across 4 billion events.

Re: ATLAS sees first direct evidence of light-by-light scattering at high energy

#16
There's an interesting implication here for redshift observations and Hubble expansion, insofar as it provides a mechanism for photons to lose energy while in a highly sparse medium, populated largely only by other photons.

I'm keeping my money on expansion and dark matter being hooey brought about by incomplete of incorrect understanding of light.

Only recently there was that rather interesting piece about simulated momentum transfer from photons in media.

It's exciting - we'll potentially be lopping off a huge branch of dead wood from the tree of science, from which new ideas can grow.

Re: ATLAS sees first direct evidence of light-by-light scattering at high energy

#17

There's an interesting implication here for redshift observations and Hubble expansion, insofar as it provides a mechanism for photons to lose energy while in a highly sparse medium, populated largely only by other photons. I'm keeping my money on expansion and dark matter being hooey brought about by incomplete of incorrect understanding of light. Only recently there was that rather interesting piece about simulated…

The way I've always heard it, as a layman, is that red shift could be explained only by an expanding universe.

I'm sure there's more rigor to it than that, but it always seem s like a pretty big conclusion. A mildly surprising claim explained by a wildly surprising theory.

Re: ATLAS sees first direct evidence of light-by-light scattering at high energy

#18
post #13

Just as a reminder, those photons are high energy ones (Gamma-ray range) so no light sabers, holograms or anything involving visible light I am afraid

Invisible light sabers. Cool

Just make sure you have some sunscreen on

Re: ATLAS sees first direct evidence of light-by-light scattering at high energy

#19
post #17

There's an interesting implication here for redshift observations and Hubble expansion, insofar as it provides a mechanism for photons to lose energy while in a highly sparse medium, populated largely only by other photons. I'm keeping my money on expansion and dark matter being hooey brought about by incomplete of incorrect understanding of light. Only recently there was that rather interesting piece about simulated…

The way I've always heard it, as a layman, is that red shift could be explained only by an expanding universe. I'm sure there's more rigor to it than that, but it always seem s like a pretty big conclusion. A mildly surprising claim explained by a wildly surprising theory.

As a physics grad, red shift can only be explained by an expanding universe with our understanding of light physics in the mid 20th century.

If you look at the world only through green glasses, you could be forgiven for thinking that everything was green. Your interpretation of observations is only as good as the theory you use to interpret. Think of epicycles, which for millenia seemed obvious and correct, until heliocentricity (for all bodies, not just earth) became the dominant model due to improved theory - but no new observations.

If light behaves even slightly differently to how we currently believe, everything from galactic rotation to expansion goes out of the window.

Here's the bit on momentum transfer - they even explicitly cite the implication for Hubble expansion.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170630085627.h...

Re: ATLAS sees first direct evidence of light-by-light scattering at high energy

#20

Can someone explain this in easier terms for a layman like myself?

Photons carry no charge, so normally they don't interact with each other. However, at high enough energies they do. The explanation given by the best available theory is that there is enough energy that a virtual electron and virtual anti-electron form, and since those have charges, they interact, and from the outside it appears that the photons interacted.

This is totally impossible in the classical view, but is fine in the quantum electrodynamic (QED) view.

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