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Ask a Female Engineer: Thoughts on the Google Memo

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Re: Ask a Female Engineer: Thoughts on the Google Memo

#12
post #2

with the recognition that gender and sex aren’t binary. Is there a biological basis for this? I do not want "Gender Studies" references. I want real BIOLOGICAL, you know code mother nature put in you.

The Hijra have existed for millenia and now have legal status: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/apr/16/india-third-...

There are several cultures that have arisen independently and have had more than two genders. Many of them are still extant today, despite the best effort of colonialists.

So that's gender down.

Intersex individuals exist. Intersex conditions range from physiological to karyotypes with variant sex chromosomes.

Transgender individuals are very varied but there are indications that it is partially heritable with genetics and the prenatal environment hypothesized to explain some of that.

And that's biology.

I could write a 100 page essay about how loaded your question was, the implicit assumptions in the way it was written, the way that "BIOLOGICAL" is implied to be a way to ignore social conditions, and the contempt for ""Gender Studies"". But I won't, it's very tiring and there will be 10 other people like you tomorrow.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: Thoughts on the Google Memo

#14
Google, like all corporate structures is hierarchical.

Corporations recognize "success" for employees through promotion. Promotion usually includes higher pay.

Men are taught from a young age that they need to "compete" for "success"

There is no way to win the game for all players inside corporate hierarchy.

If you can't win the game, but wish to remain (or are trapped by your economic situation) you will have pressure to feel validated.

Throughout history, dominant majorities (men, whites, etc) succumb to this same problem of "not enough winners." This format breeds a type of resentment instead of introspection.

Instead of facing the truth: the game is stacked against you, you may just not be that good etc., it is far easier to devise some sort of massive conspiracy or pseudo-science to justify your prejudice.

White men feel that they "deserve" things moreso now than ever because women, POC etc represent another competitor in their weird corporate power fantasy game.

It feels increasingly "Unfair" and contrasts to the cultural narrative we continue to endorse (especially here in SV) - that success is economic based, and based on merit.

Women and POC will continue to be the scapegoats until culturally we decide that "success" isn't about being an individual that becomes rich or powerful.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: Thoughts on the Google Memo

#15
post #2

with the recognition that gender and sex aren’t binary. Is there a biological basis for this? I do not want "Gender Studies" references. I want real BIOLOGICAL, you know code mother nature put in you.

There are people with XX, XY, XXX, XYY, XXYY, etc chromosomes.

Also there are various hormonal insensitivities, so a person won't display the typical sexual characteristics associated with their chromosomes.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: Thoughts on the Google Memo

#16

> he wasn’t sure whether he was correct and simply wanted to start a discussion (as he subsequently stated in a YouTube interview) Anyone got a link?

He stated on Tucker Carlson that he has based his argument on what he referred to as scientific consensus.

I'm not making any endorsement of the comment or of the science, since it isn't my field, but just relaying what he said.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: Thoughts on the Google Memo

#17
post #2

with the recognition that gender and sex aren’t binary. Is there a biological basis for this? I do not want "Gender Studies" references. I want real BIOLOGICAL, you know code mother nature put in you.

Gender is usually considered indicative or coupled with cultural behavior and performative behavior, i.e. in the U.S. barbie dolls are 'toys for girls'. Sex begins and ends at the biological level and is strictly related to the organs and biological makeup you have and what you can do with those. I know less about how sex isn't binary, but in the case of gender it's fairly evident these days.

At least that's how I've understood it in layman's terms and with my very basic knowledge--it's very complex, as with anything worth studying. The seminal text on the issue in the eyes of many is Judith Butler's Gender Trouble--If you truly are serious about wanting to learn about this stuff I suggest you check it out.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: Thoughts on the Google Memo

#18
post #6

I really enjoyed the well reasoned discussion. I think a lot more constructive dialog is happening now that people have calmed down. Of all the sentiments expressed in the article, I mainly disagree with the comment that Damore did the company harm. He posted his thoughts on an internal discussion board and someone else leaked this internal document to the press. The leaker did harm to Google not Damore. In fact, I t…

The harm would have been done even if the memo was not leaked, due to the otherwise discussed effects on google employees.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: Thoughts on the Google Memo

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best explanation you will get is from a medical doctor. They will explain to you how there are multiple sexes. Gender is not biological so there is no biological explanation. For people who are downvoting me and are either too lazy to talk to a doctor or use Google: Fine, here are some links. Please educate yourselves about simple biology you should have learned in school. https://www.quora.com/Scientifically-how…

> Gender is not biological so there is no biological explanation. There is considerable evidence of gender identity different from biological sex lining up with biological features in several areas more typical of the other sex, so it seems that gender identity is tied to biology. Which, if you think about it, it has to be: humans are biological machines, everything about them is biology, on one level or another. All…

Seems a tad reductionist; by that same token, all of psychology is also physics.

Re: Ask a Female Engineer: Thoughts on the Google Memo

#20
post #2

with the recognition that gender and sex aren’t binary. Is there a biological basis for this? I do not want "Gender Studies" references. I want real BIOLOGICAL, you know code mother nature put in you.

The Hijra have existed for millenia and now have legal status: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/apr/16/india-third-... There are several cultures that have arisen independently and have had more than two genders. Many of them are still extant today, despite the best effort of colonialists. So that's gender down. Intersex individuals exist. Intersex conditions range from physiological to karyotypes with varian…

Are the numbers of intersex individuals large enough to actually matter? And how many of them are fertile?
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