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More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

theguardian.com

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Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#11

Post by humanrebar »

josteink wrote: post #8

> The document, which was widely condemned as misogynistic and scientifically inaccurate Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo? They are re-iterating misconceptions based on Gizmodos original story, where Gizmodo deliberately gave a misleading report, removed sources and incorrectly presented an internal memo for internal discussion as an "anti-diversity manifesto". Even a cursory glance of the ac…

There was an Atlantic piece about this specific thing that hit the HN front page. It was flagged as a dupe.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14967440

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#12

Post by tyingq »

trentnix wrote: post #6

Here is a clue for everyone: you aren't paid according to the value you bring. You are either paid according to some pseudo-arbitrary schedule or you are paid what you can be had for. Unless Google has a secret pay penalty for females, the problem here is women being willing to work for less. No lawsuit is needed to correct that.

What's being alleged is:

“They are concerned that women are channeled to levels and positions that pay less than men with similar education and experience,”

I have no idea if that's true, but if so, that could be a sort of "secret pay penalty".

It is a somewhat difficult path to negotiate at hiring as levels and titles aren't consistent across companies.

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#13

Post by cristianpascu »

needlessly2 wrote: post #10
cristianpascu wrote: post #4

Please downvote! It's 2017, an introduction to a sentence I totally hate, and 60 women are suing a progressive company for sexism. One freaking hundred years, or something, after women started voting. What happened in that time? Women were blind to say the least? How is this NOT evidence that men and women are different. I've seen countless cases of men fighting and swearing at each other, bragging about themselves,…

>dynamic of personal choices and psychology is so complicated and so contingent to personal background and current state So these women choose to have lower salaries even though they have the same qualifications/experience?

That question is one step away from reading into my statements something like 'women should pay to work in IT'. Knock yourself out!

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#14

Post by golergka »

trentnix wrote: post #6

Here is a clue for everyone: you aren't paid according to the value you bring. You are either paid according to some pseudo-arbitrary schedule or you are paid what you can be had for. Unless Google has a secret pay penalty for females, the problem here is women being willing to work for less. No lawsuit is needed to correct that.

"Value" is subjective.

Market value, however, is something that can be measured quite effectively. And I think most of developers on HN do it regularly, when they go to interviews without any real intention of changing their workplace.

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#15

Post by [deleted] »

josteink wrote: post #8

> The document, which was widely condemned as misogynistic and scientifically inaccurate Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo? They are re-iterating misconceptions based on Gizmodos original story, where Gizmodo deliberately gave a misleading report, removed sources and incorrectly presented an internal memo for internal discussion as an "anti-diversity manifesto". Even a cursory glance of the ac…

[deleted]

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#16

Post by anon12345690 »

needlessly2 wrote: post #10
cristianpascu wrote: post #4

Please downvote! It's 2017, an introduction to a sentence I totally hate, and 60 women are suing a progressive company for sexism. One freaking hundred years, or something, after women started voting. What happened in that time? Women were blind to say the least? How is this NOT evidence that men and women are different. I've seen countless cases of men fighting and swearing at each other, bragging about themselves,…

>dynamic of personal choices and psychology is so complicated and so contingent to personal background and current state So these women choose to have lower salaries even though they have the same qualifications/experience?

What if person A asks for a raise but person B doesnt? Salaries are negotiations.

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#17

Post by dragonwriter »

josteink wrote: post #8

> The document, which was widely condemned as misogynistic and scientifically inaccurate Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo? They are re-iterating misconceptions based on Gizmodos original story, where Gizmodo deliberately gave a misleading report, removed sources and incorrectly presented an internal memo for internal discussion as an "anti-diversity manifesto". Even a cursory glance of the ac…

> Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo?

Reading the memo is irrelevant to the fact claim you quoted, which is about the response to the memo, not about it's content. (It's also completely accurate; the memo has been widely condemned on the basis stated.)

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#18

Post by golergka »

needlessly2 wrote: post #10
cristianpascu wrote: post #4

Please downvote! It's 2017, an introduction to a sentence I totally hate, and 60 women are suing a progressive company for sexism. One freaking hundred years, or something, after women started voting. What happened in that time? Women were blind to say the least? How is this NOT evidence that men and women are different. I've seen countless cases of men fighting and swearing at each other, bragging about themselves,…

>dynamic of personal choices and psychology is so complicated and so contingent to personal background and current state So these women choose to have lower salaries even though they have the same qualifications/experience?

> it's so complicated

So you mean that [strawman simplistic viewpoint]?

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#19

Post by [deleted] »

humanrebar wrote: post #11
josteink wrote: post #8

> The document, which was widely condemned as misogynistic and scientifically inaccurate Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo? They are re-iterating misconceptions based on Gizmodos original story, where Gizmodo deliberately gave a misleading report, removed sources and incorrectly presented an internal memo for internal discussion as an "anti-diversity manifesto". Even a cursory glance of the ac…

There was an Atlantic piece about this specific thing that hit the HN front page. It was flagged as a dupe. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14967440

[deleted]

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#20

Post by doktrin »

josteink wrote: post #8

> The document, which was widely condemned as misogynistic and scientifically inaccurate Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo? They are re-iterating misconceptions based on Gizmodos original story, where Gizmodo deliberately gave a misleading report, removed sources and incorrectly presented an internal memo for internal discussion as an "anti-diversity manifesto". Even a cursory glance of the ac…

>> The document, which was widely condemned as misogynistic and scientifically inaccurate

> Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo?

Maybe I'm being pedantic, but the document was widely condemned as being both of those things. Reporting that those condemnations occurred (they did) isn't an implicit validation of said condemnations.

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