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IBM and Sony cram up to 330TB into tiny tape cartridge

arstechnica.co.uk

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Re: IBM and Sony cram up to 330TB into tiny tape cartridge

#11
post #10

Honest question: are tape drives fast enough for use in any asynchronous/random-access environment, or are they generally limited to backups, financial and scientific data? For example, could something like Youtube rely on tapes as the tail end of a LRU cache or similar?

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_Tape-Open#Positioning_t... , in the region of 50 seconds, which isn't really good enough.

Re: IBM and Sony cram up to 330TB into tiny tape cartridge

#14
post #10

Honest question: are tape drives fast enough for use in any asynchronous/random-access environment, or are they generally limited to backups, financial and scientific data? For example, could something like Youtube rely on tapes as the tail end of a LRU cache or similar?

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_Tape-Open#Positioning_t... , in the region of 50 seconds, which isn't really good enough.

I'm sure there's long-tail data on YouTube for which terabytes of files that could be backed up to tape are accessed far more slowly than every 50 seconds. I agree that this would not be a great user experience, but there's certainly a place for it, especially if the cost/terabyte is compelling.

Re: IBM and Sony cram up to 330TB into tiny tape cartridge

#15
post #10

Honest question: are tape drives fast enough for use in any asynchronous/random-access environment, or are they generally limited to backups, financial and scientific data? For example, could something like Youtube rely on tapes as the tail end of a LRU cache or similar?

Probably not for serving user requests for content.

But, if Youtube archived the original upload on tape before transcoding to a different format, then it would be useful. The tapes would really only be "read," in a batch manner, when they want to re-transcode to a newer codec.

Likewise, tape would be a great way to store the digital equivalent of the "negatives" once a movie, TV show, or music album is complete. No one needs instant, on-demand, random access to every shot, every take, and every camera angle. It can be pulled off the tape in 10 years when producing the Nth remaster for the new super-duper bluray version.

Re: IBM and Sony cram up to 330TB into tiny tape cartridge

#16
post #7

Note that commercial tape cartridges max out at 15TB - so, less than the theoretical amount enabled by the 2010 breakthrough. Will be a long time and quite expensive when/if these finally hit the market. I would love to store backups on tape at home. Unfortunately harddrives are still the cheapest option in practice, and they are a bit too expensive and a bit impractical to comfortably use as offline storage (and tra…

well the drives/etc we have for home use are magnitudes cheaper than commercial gear which only really has equivalence with regards to how much it stores.

recently pricing out 337gb SSD drives for our production and backup servers ends up with a price about nine times that of which it would cost per terabyte of a new iMac. When you get into have 60 to 120TB it adds up but reliability is so much more important.

Now I have never looked at tape backup for home use, what is the throughput of most of these? Is this merely a limit of the interface?

Re: IBM and Sony cram up to 330TB into tiny tape cartridge

#17
post #10

Honest question: are tape drives fast enough for use in any asynchronous/random-access environment, or are they generally limited to backups, financial and scientific data? For example, could something like Youtube rely on tapes as the tail end of a LRU cache or similar?

Tape provides linear access. The limits of AWS Glacier are probably a good place to start back of napkin latency calculations. https://aws.amazon.com/glacier/

Re: IBM and Sony cram up to 330TB into tiny tape cartridge

#18
post #4

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. --Tanenbaum

Let's do some XKCD what-if math because I love doing stuff like this.

An average truck can house anywhere between 20,000L to 40,000L [1]. Let's take an average 30,000L.

An average truck can also travel at anywhere in between 56 kph to 137 kph [2]. Let's take an average 100 kph.

The tape catridge in the image looks like it's about 4mm x 10cm x 6 cm. And it can store 330 TB.

Let's say we're transfering from New York to San Francisco. That's 4,678 km according to Google.

Total data transferred in one truck = 330 TB * ((30000 L / (1000 L / m^3)) / ((4 mm * 0.001 m/mm) * (10 cm * 0.01 cm/m) * (6 cm * 0.01 cm/m)) = 412500000 TB

Total time taken = (4678 km * (1000 m/km)) / (100 kph * (0.27 (m/s)/kph)) = 173259 s

Bandwidth = 412500000 TB / 173259 s = 2380 TB/sec = 19046 Tbps

For reference, 255 Tbps was the fastest single fibre [3]. This is a good 75 times faster.

Of course, all this comes with a network latency of 2 days.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_truck#Size_and_volume [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_Sta... [3] https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/192929-255tbps-worlds-fa...

Re: IBM and Sony cram up to 330TB into tiny tape cartridge

#19
post #18
post #4

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. --Tanenbaum

Let's do some XKCD what-if math because I love doing stuff like this. An average truck can house anywhere between 20,000L to 40,000L [1]. Let's take an average 30,000L. An average truck can also travel at anywhere in between 56 kph to 137 kph [2]. Let's take an average 100 kph. The tape catridge in the image looks like it's about 4mm x 10cm x 6 cm. And it can store 330 TB. Let's say we're transfering from New York to…

Lovely :'D

Re: IBM and Sony cram up to 330TB into tiny tape cartridge

#20
post #18
post #4

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. --Tanenbaum

Let's do some XKCD what-if math because I love doing stuff like this. An average truck can house anywhere between 20,000L to 40,000L [1]. Let's take an average 30,000L. An average truck can also travel at anywhere in between 56 kph to 137 kph [2]. Let's take an average 100 kph. The tape catridge in the image looks like it's about 4mm x 10cm x 6 cm. And it can store 330 TB. Let's say we're transfering from New York to…

You need to factor in the time needed to transfer the data onto/off the drives.
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