We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong • Hacker News Board

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#11

Post by WalterSear » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:02 PM UTC

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

>When you run barefoot, or in a pair of ultra-light "shoes" like Vibrams, you learn very quickly not to do that, or you stop running. The "right" way is to land on the ball of the foot, with the knee slightly bent. The knee bends further to dissipate the force of the landing. This is how evolution "meant" for us to do it.

There's more to it than that. Please make sure that you are pushing off with your heel. Many people assume that barefoot running is the same as running on the balls of your feet, but if, after your toes touch, you aren't subsequently landing and pushing off with your heel, you are likely to injure yourself, and more seriously than if you didn't barefoot run at all. The small, delicate toes in the forefoot are not meant to handle the load of landing and takeoff.

FYI: This movement doesn't feel natural or normal for most people until they have tried it a bunch - the muscles and flexibility for it aren't there. It took me about six weeks of practice, but I was not a particularly frequent runner - mostly because of the knee pain of running 'normally'. The pain was eliminated by running barefoot instead.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#12

Post by lawpoop » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:04 PM UTC

positivecomment wrote: post #7

dingdongding wrote: post #2

The title says "We're doing it all wrong", but after reading the article it hardly says much about what we are doing wrong. The only wrong it talks about is treadmill and that's it.

"Treadmill is bad because it was invented as a torture device and one famous person died three years after doing it excessively. It is like running without any of the good stuff". This is an actual argument from the article.

Can't say I disagree with him on that

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#13

Post by jackmott » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:06 PM UTC

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

>I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thing I did for my running was to buy a pair of Vibram Five-Fingers shoes.

The single most important thing I've done for my running, is run more and lose weight. This is a universal thing. Everyone who gets good gets good via more running and losing weight. Running more can be hard. If there is a shoe that helps you do it, go for it. But as pace increases sometimes a shoe as minimal as a vibram can be problematic. Its certainly isn't necessary for everybody. People set world records without ever using a strange shoe.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#14

Post by rosser » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:07 PM UTC

WalterSear wrote: post #11

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

>When you run barefoot, or in a pair of ultra-light "shoes" like Vibrams, you learn very quickly not to do that, or you stop running. The "right" way is to land on the ball of the foot, with the knee slightly bent. The knee bends further to dissipate the force of the landing. This is how evolution "meant" for us to do it. There's more to it than that. Please make sure that you are pushing off with your heel. Many peo…

You're right. Thanks.

Pushing off with the heel is actually specifically (if indirectly) part of what I'm working on with the bodyworker I mentioned, even. I really should have completed the thought.

Thanks for catching and clarifying that.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#15

Post by e12e » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

There's also a difference between running (barefoot or not) in terrain, as opposed to running on paved roads - so in a sense things started to go wrong with the Romans (in Europe).

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#16

Post by rosser » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:10 PM UTC

jackmott wrote: post #13

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

>I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thing I did for my running was to buy a pair of Vibram Five-Fingers shoes. The single most important thing I've done for my running, is run more and lose weight. This is a universal thing. Everyone who gets good gets good via more running and losing weight. Running more c…

I've almost always been towards the lower end of the healthy BMI range for my height (to the extent BMI is even a meaningful metric), so that wasn't a consideration for me.

That said, absolutely: if you're at all overweight, you specifically need to account for that in your regimen, and train up to running with that load. If you don't, you won't be running for long — one way or another.

I was also never running for pace. I found a comfortable pace and incrementally increased my distance. YMMV.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#17

Post by e12e » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:13 PM UTC

WalterSear wrote: post #11

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

>When you run barefoot, or in a pair of ultra-light "shoes" like Vibrams, you learn very quickly not to do that, or you stop running. The "right" way is to land on the ball of the foot, with the knee slightly bent. The knee bends further to dissipate the force of the landing. This is how evolution "meant" for us to do it. There's more to it than that. Please make sure that you are pushing off with your heel. Many peo…

Do you have some more information on this? Are you talking about running on paved road, or in (rough) terrain? I admit I have some difficulty visualizing how you combine landing on the ball of your foot with pushing off with the heel (so I at least agree that it doesn't feel natural :-).

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#18

Post by WalterSear » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:13 PM UTC

rosser wrote: post #14

WalterSear wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When you run barefoot, or in a pair of ultra-light "shoes" like Vibrams, you learn very quickly not to do that, or you stop running. The "right" way is to land on the ball of the foot, with the knee slightly bent. The knee bends further to dissipate the force of the landing. This is how evolution "meant" for us to do it. There's more to it than that. Please make sure that you are pushing off with your heel. Many peo…

You're right. Thanks. Pushing off with the heel is actually specifically (if indirectly) part of what I'm working on with the bodyworker I mentioned, even. I really should have completed the thought. Thanks for catching and clarifying that.

Oh, another thing: $20 water shoes last only slightly less long than $100+ speciality 'barefoot' running shoes. :)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002Z7EOK8/ref=oh_aui_deta...

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#19

Post by vinay427 » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:14 PM UTC

mlinksva wrote: post #8

I wish the interview was a bit more substantial, but I like the exercise should be free/gyms are bad (exaggeration mine) idea. Gyms are like skyways (eg in Minneapolis), or like mass transit stations surrounded by parking: they detract from the vibrancy of street life and subvert their purpose.

By that logic, tennis courts, swimming pools, and other recreational facilities do the same. Not everyone uses a gym to run on a treadmill, or even to do cardio-based exercises.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#20

Post by js8 » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:17 PM UTC

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

> The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong

The way I understood it is that it's wrong for it to be considered a "sport" rather than a "meditation", that is, it should be less about competition and more about relaxation.