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Is California Bailing Out Tesla through the Backdoor?

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11–20 of 48 posts

Re: Is California Bailing Out Tesla through the Backdoor?

#11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bike as well and never thought of this. Now, I'll never be able to forget it.

One solution is to simply treat everyone equally and not give anyone a tax break. I know this is not what most people think, but in the context of good governance, my view is that no (legal) behavior is any more or less meritorious than any other.

[deleted]

Re: Is California Bailing Out Tesla through the Backdoor?

#12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bike as well and never thought of this. Now, I'll never be able to forget it.

One solution is to simply treat everyone equally and not give anyone a tax break. I know this is not what most people think, but in the context of good governance, my view is that no (legal) behavior is any more or less meritorious than any other.

There are lots of perfectly legal things that are bad for everyone if too many people do them (the tragedy of the commons). Trying to reduce bad things happening to citizens is arguably the entire purpose of government.

Re: Is California Bailing Out Tesla through the Backdoor?

#13

I don't understand why they are singling out Tesla here. There are currently 4 other large volume production EV's being sold in California (Nissan Leaf, Hyundai Ioniq, Chevy Bolt, BMW i3). EV's make good sense both economically and environmentally for California in the long run, but we still need the tax incentives for the next few years until battery costs come down with new production capacity.

Trickle-down environmentalism is not real environmentalism, and the ruse is becoming clearer by the day.

Re: Is California Bailing Out Tesla through the Backdoor?

#14

I don't understand why they are singling out Tesla here. There are currently 4 other large volume production EV's being sold in California (Nissan Leaf, Hyundai Ioniq, Chevy Bolt, BMW i3). EV's make good sense both economically and environmentally for California in the long run, but we still need the tax incentives for the next few years until battery costs come down with new production capacity.

[deleted]

Re: Is California Bailing Out Tesla through the Backdoor?

#15

I don't understand why they are singling out Tesla here. There are currently 4 other large volume production EV's being sold in California (Nissan Leaf, Hyundai Ioniq, Chevy Bolt, BMW i3). EV's make good sense both economically and environmentally for California in the long run, but we still need the tax incentives for the next few years until battery costs come down with new production capacity.

Because the benefits of the subsidy are disproportionately given to companies that exhaust federal subsidies. And Tesla will be the only one to do that for some time.

EV's don't make good sense "economically" for California yet. It's not unreasonable to wait until battery costs come down so mass adoption comes naturally.

They do make sense environmentally, but there is a far better way to compensate them for the actual value of their environmental benefit rather than a politically decided subsidy. California is already discussing doing it's own Cap and Trade market. Instead of subsidizing "zero emission" cars, it creates a market cost for carbon emissions, and raises the prices of gas engined cars, and not just newly purchased cars, all cars.

And it's fair, if your Tesla gets all of it's electricity from coal fired plants, you'll pay your fair share for that plants emissions.

Re: Is California Bailing Out Tesla through the Backdoor?

#16
post #5

Is Tesla in trouble financially? And I mean actual can-no-longer-be-profitable type trouble? That seems an odd call given that they've so far planned pretty comprehensively, and delivered pretty much on their plans, and those plans would have included the existing subsidy ending as soon as they hit higher volumes. The fact that they're hellbent on hitting those higher volumes ASAP indicates to me that they know they'…

They raised a ton of money recently to cover the continuing investment they forecast needing to make it to profitability. But they then turned around and bought hemorrhaging Solar City, so it's unclear how long the cash will last and whether it's long enough.

Re: Is California Bailing Out Tesla through the Backdoor?

#17

I don't understand why they are singling out Tesla here. There are currently 4 other large volume production EV's being sold in California (Nissan Leaf, Hyundai Ioniq, Chevy Bolt, BMW i3). EV's make good sense both economically and environmentally for California in the long run, but we still need the tax incentives for the next few years until battery costs come down with new production capacity.

Because the benefits of the subsidy are disproportionately given to companies that exhaust federal subsidies. And Tesla will be the only one to do that for some time. EV's don't make good sense "economically" for California yet. It's not unreasonable to wait until battery costs come down so mass adoption comes naturally. They do make sense environmentally, but there is a far better way to compensate them for the actu…

What about the carbon emissions in order to manufacture the car, dig up mines for lithium etc? Surely that needs to be accounted as well.

Re: Is California Bailing Out Tesla through the Backdoor?

#19
The Business Insider piece sourced it's information on what the bill does not on the bill text, but on a combination of an advocacy email from an opposed legislator and reporting by the Mercury News.

The rebate plan does not do at all what the article claims; specifically, for instance, it does not establish a new general rebate that is designed to match the difference between an electric vehicle's price and that of a non-electric vehicle with similar features. Instead, it establishes a declining rebate for compact electric vehicles that starts at an initial level that would provide an approximate net purchase price after all existing incentives equal to the most commonly sold compact vehicle in the State, but where the rebate level would decline with EV penetration by income segment. (Health and Safety Code 44215.4, as added by the bill.)

In fact, there was no specific rebate plan in the version passed by the Assembly, which notionally is the subject of the article; there was a requirement for the PUC to adopt incentives. The sources the article relied on (assuming BI doesn't misrepresent then) were either inventing bill content from whole cloth or speculating about what the PUC might do; in any case, the bill has been significantly revised already in the Senate, to address the same broad purpose but to be more specific about program parameters and move the primary administrative responsibility for programs to the Air Resources Board rather than the PUC.

Re: Is California Bailing Out Tesla through the Backdoor?

#20

I don't understand why they are singling out Tesla here. There are currently 4 other large volume production EV's being sold in California (Nissan Leaf, Hyundai Ioniq, Chevy Bolt, BMW i3). EV's make good sense both economically and environmentally for California in the long run, but we still need the tax incentives for the next few years until battery costs come down with new production capacity.

Because the benefits of the subsidy are disproportionately given to companies that exhaust federal subsidies. And Tesla will be the only one to do that for some time. EV's don't make good sense "economically" for California yet. It's not unreasonable to wait until battery costs come down so mass adoption comes naturally. They do make sense environmentally, but there is a far better way to compensate them for the actu…

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