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Building the XNU kernel on macOS Sierra

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Re: Building the XNU kernel on macOS Sierra

#11

Post by ori_b »

mikalv wrote: post #7
jarjoura wrote: post #6

XNU open source bits from Apple are always a tiny subset of the actual kernel code. Plus, long gone are the people who Apple hired from the FreeBSD world who believed in it enough to push internally for it. So who knows at this point what is filtered out at publish time. Don't get me wrong, it's great to read how file drivers really work, and read how XNU manages virtual memory, but other than that, it's a pretty cra…

Yea personally I'm mostly fascinated with the semi microkernel architecture. I don't really mind that the rest is closed. And yea, I've suspected they lost some good people after seeing all the new security issues in the kernel the past years. If only wayland was more mature, and the Linux world would have put down X11 once and for all, I would be back on Linux a long time ago :)

> If only wayland was more mature, and the Linux world would have put down X11 once and for all, I would be back on Linux a long time ago :)

I'm curious why Wayland changes things for you. X11 is warty as hell, but that's generally not something visible to the user. I don't go "Eww, they didn't bother framing the graphics message packets properly -- I'm going to use another OS".

Re: Building the XNU kernel on macOS Sierra

#12

Post by pjmlp »

mikalv wrote: post #7
jarjoura wrote: post #6

XNU open source bits from Apple are always a tiny subset of the actual kernel code. Plus, long gone are the people who Apple hired from the FreeBSD world who believed in it enough to push internally for it. So who knows at this point what is filtered out at publish time. Don't get me wrong, it's great to read how file drivers really work, and read how XNU manages virtual memory, but other than that, it's a pretty cra…

Yea personally I'm mostly fascinated with the semi microkernel architecture. I don't really mind that the rest is closed. And yea, I've suspected they lost some good people after seeing all the new security issues in the kernel the past years. If only wayland was more mature, and the Linux world would have put down X11 once and for all, I would be back on Linux a long time ago :)

I came to realize that for those of us that actually care about graphics programming, nice GUI tools and UI/UX, Linux world will never be the place to be.

The majority of devs are happy having a replicate of PDP-11 experience, maybe with twm and tools like xdvi or xv.

Those that try to improve the overall desktop experience closer to other desktop systems, get bashed as needless fluff.

Re: Building the XNU kernel on macOS Sierra

#13

Post by legulere »

ori_b wrote: post #11
mikalv wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea personally I'm mostly fascinated with the semi microkernel architecture. I don't really mind that the rest is closed. And yea, I've suspected they lost some good people after seeing all the new security issues in the kernel the past years. If only wayland was more mature, and the Linux world would have put down X11 once and for all, I would be back on Linux a long time ago :)

> If only wayland was more mature, and the Linux world would have put down X11 once and for all, I would be back on Linux a long time ago :) I'm curious why Wayland changes things for you. X11 is warty as hell, but that's generally not something visible to the user. I don't go "Eww, they didn't bother framing the graphics message packets properly -- I'm going to use another OS".

X11 is also responsible for some of the sluggishness of the Linux desktop, like resizing windows.

Re: Building the XNU kernel on macOS Sierra

#14

Post by pjmlp »

ori_b wrote: post #11
mikalv wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea personally I'm mostly fascinated with the semi microkernel architecture. I don't really mind that the rest is closed. And yea, I've suspected they lost some good people after seeing all the new security issues in the kernel the past years. If only wayland was more mature, and the Linux world would have put down X11 once and for all, I would be back on Linux a long time ago :)

> If only wayland was more mature, and the Linux world would have put down X11 once and for all, I would be back on Linux a long time ago :) I'm curious why Wayland changes things for you. X11 is warty as hell, but that's generally not something visible to the user. I don't go "Eww, they didn't bother framing the graphics message packets properly -- I'm going to use another OS".

I guess a proper stack for doing 3D graphics, instead of the gimmicks that X has had over the years?

I lost count how many times I sat at FOSDEM X room, seeing the improvements that would eventually come (some day).

Re: Building the XNU kernel on macOS Sierra

#15

Post by voltagex_ »

mikalv wrote: post #8
voltagex_ wrote: post #2

Excellent! PureDarwin [1] is still plodding along slowly. 1: http://www.puredarwin.org/

Yea, I got surprised they didn't have more documentation, at least updated.

Contact details are in my profile - if there's anything in particular you're looking for I can ping a few people from the project.

Re: Building the XNU kernel on macOS Sierra

#16

Post by devin_lane »

jarjoura wrote: post #6

XNU open source bits from Apple are always a tiny subset of the actual kernel code. Plus, long gone are the people who Apple hired from the FreeBSD world who believed in it enough to push internally for it. So who knows at this point what is filtered out at publish time. Don't get me wrong, it's great to read how file drivers really work, and read how XNU manages virtual memory, but other than that, it's a pretty cra…

The instructions end with where to copy it to boot off it -- does this just not work at all? Or is it just less performant/capable?

Re: Building the XNU kernel on macOS Sierra

#17

Post by mikalv »

ori_b wrote: post #11
mikalv wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea personally I'm mostly fascinated with the semi microkernel architecture. I don't really mind that the rest is closed. And yea, I've suspected they lost some good people after seeing all the new security issues in the kernel the past years. If only wayland was more mature, and the Linux world would have put down X11 once and for all, I would be back on Linux a long time ago :)

> If only wayland was more mature, and the Linux world would have put down X11 once and for all, I would be back on Linux a long time ago :) I'm curious why Wayland changes things for you. X11 is warty as hell, but that's generally not something visible to the user. I don't go "Eww, they didn't bother framing the graphics message packets properly -- I'm going to use another OS".

Haha, well it's not only X11, but it's one of the main reasons. Other reasons are that for my usage and work, it just "works", no hours of configuration in dotfiles. Also it's convenient as a cross platform developer, since I can just crosscompile to Linux and Windows(mingw) via Docker. However, without the Mac, you'll have to break some licenses with a hackintosh. I think the project is cool, but in work related situations I can't do that because of legal reasons.

This also reminds me about a cool project I've found, but not had time to test yet; https://github.com/shinh/maloader

Re: Building the XNU kernel on macOS Sierra

#18

Post by Vogtinator »

legulere wrote: post #13
ori_b wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If only wayland was more mature, and the Linux world would have put down X11 once and for all, I would be back on Linux a long time ago :) I'm curious why Wayland changes things for you. X11 is warty as hell, but that's generally not something visible to the user. I don't go "Eww, they didn't bother framing the graphics message packets properly -- I'm going to use another OS".

X11 is also responsible for some of the sluggishness of the Linux desktop, like resizing windows.

With compositing enabled that doesn't really matter.

Re: Building the XNU kernel on macOS Sierra

#19

Post by [deleted] »

legulere wrote: post #13
ori_b wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If only wayland was more mature, and the Linux world would have put down X11 once and for all, I would be back on Linux a long time ago :) I'm curious why Wayland changes things for you. X11 is warty as hell, but that's generally not something visible to the user. I don't go "Eww, they didn't bother framing the graphics message packets properly -- I'm going to use another OS".

X11 is also responsible for some of the sluggishness of the Linux desktop, like resizing windows.

[deleted]

Re: Building the XNU kernel on macOS Sierra

#20

Post by mikalv »

voltagex_ wrote: post #15
mikalv wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I got surprised they didn't have more documentation, at least updated.

Contact details are in my profile - if there's anything in particular you're looking for I can ping a few people from the project.

Thanks, but I actually talked with the people in the project a few years back, and have on my todo list to do it again soon :)
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