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How much do hackers at the CIA/NSA/FBI make?

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Re: How much do hackers at the CIA/NSA/FBI make?

#12

Hopefully the following helps, it is from research I have done comparing the public sector to the private sector pay and compensation over time, specifically comparing intelligence community pay to regular government agency pay and compensation for the independent agencies (FCC, SEC, CIA, CFTC, FTC, GSA, USPS, SSA, etc.) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_Un... If they are government employee…

Assuming by "pretty good hackers" OP means the developers actually doing the work, they are typically GS-12 or GS-13 - so $80k to $120k. GS-14 slots and above are reserved for management and spend much less time doing the real work.

A lot of the teams employ contractors alongside the USG employees, with higher pay ranges.

Re: How much do hackers at the CIA/NSA/FBI make?

#13

North of 100k, south of 200k. Assuming some level of seniority or subject matter expertise. After that, there is a ceiling, so most will work for private firms or consult, making 2x, 3x, or much more.

USG employees vs. contractor is an important distinction. Your ranges imply your friends are contractors. See techjuice's post for USG ranges.

Re: How much do hackers at the CIA/NSA/FBI make?

#14

Gs scale, +engineering pay band and locality pay(if applicable). The exceptions are military, they’re paid at comparable ranks. Most civilians start around GS9, then get fed up and go contractor for better pay.

Yes. I worked in the intel space and never knew a SES who wasn't a project manager or had several direct reports. Software staff aren't SES unless they run a group. I'd be surprised if high GS numbers (i.e. 12-14) applied to software staff unless they had 10+ years of experience or direct reports.

Re: How much do hackers at the CIA/NSA/FBI make?

#16
post #15

Speaking from personal experience (dating an employee) I can tell you it is not necessarily north of 100K. Most I have spoken with from NSA make less thank 100k and that's with 5+ years at the agency, non-management.

Also, this link may help give you some background. You also have to consider that salary is adjusted based on location. https://www.federalpay.org/employees

Re: How much do hackers at the CIA/NSA/FBI make?

#17
post #12

Hopefully the following helps, it is from research I have done comparing the public sector to the private sector pay and compensation over time, specifically comparing intelligence community pay to regular government agency pay and compensation for the independent agencies (FCC, SEC, CIA, CFTC, FTC, GSA, USPS, SSA, etc.) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_Un... If they are government employee…

Assuming by "pretty good hackers" OP means the developers actually doing the work, they are typically GS-12 or GS-13 - so $80k to $120k. GS-14 slots and above are reserved for management and spend much less time doing the real work. A lot of the teams employ contractors alongside the USG employees, with higher pay ranges.

> GS-14 slots and above are reserved for management and spend much less time doing the real work.

This is normally true but there are organizations that have technical roles up to GS-15.

Re: How much do hackers at the CIA/NSA/FBI make?

#19

Hopefully the following helps, it is from research I have done comparing the public sector to the private sector pay and compensation over time, specifically comparing intelligence community pay to regular government agency pay and compensation for the independent agencies (FCC, SEC, CIA, CFTC, FTC, GSA, USPS, SSA, etc.) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_Un... If they are government employee…

What is the educational path to becoming a CISO? Would you go into IT or CS?

Re: How much do hackers at the CIA/NSA/FBI make?

#20

Hopefully the following helps, it is from research I have done comparing the public sector to the private sector pay and compensation over time, specifically comparing intelligence community pay to regular government agency pay and compensation for the independent agencies (FCC, SEC, CIA, CFTC, FTC, GSA, USPS, SSA, etc.) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_Un... If they are government employee…

Just to improve that answer: SES is usually reserved for management. It is designed to produce a general "gov't manager" able to be swapped into any agency and manage people. It is extremely rare for any SES to do research work directly. They usually manage a lab or similar larger organization. The same goes for GS-14 and higher. Those ranks usually translate to management, or it is expected that they would have some…

to add a little bit of extra inside baseball (my experience only, YMMV) -

bands (short for pay bands) in FEDERAL (not contractor) competitive service vs. excepted service are slightly different.

Competitive service works as Band 1-4, followed by SES (senior executive service). With excepted service (which I expect most hacker type folks to be hired under) you don't have SES. You have Band 1-5, with Band 5 roughly = to an SES pay grade. Excepted services essentially means you are hired in for a special skill set, and you don't compete on the normal gov HR point system (which includes vet preference, disability, etc.). Excepted service tends to be used for hiring a specific person. Downside is that without competitive status, excepted service personnel can not move laterally in government.

in both cases, band 1-4 cover the same ground as GS 1-15, but with less stratification.

GS Grades go from 1-15, but each grade has 10 steps. GS 9 (average masters degree education starting point) will run 42K-56K base + whatever COLA (cost of living adjustment) you get for location. For Wash DC area COLA is +24.78%, bumping GS 9 to 53k (step 1)-69K (step 10). Each department/team is a little different, but most places I'm familiar with have a clear career path from GS7-GS13. GS14 and GS15 are more slot based, and generally are management positions.

Bands are tougher to move around in after your initial hire. It works out better for you if you just scrap into the next highest band, it works out worse if you land in the middle or the top of your band. Instead of step or grade based pay bumps, the band system is an "experiment" to incorporate pay for performance. Everyone gets their base pay (determined by band, and then further separated into high, medium, and low), and then there is an extra pool of money at the office level that is distributed by performance reviews. High performers get 1.5%-3% * (base pay + COLA), with low performers getting nothing. Without getting deeper into the weeds, most people can expect to get a ~1%-1.5% "bonus" annually. Theoretically, the bonus system is supposed to make up for the additional stratification of the Grade/Step system, but because of office politics the curve is pretty flat, and the high performers don't really see that much of a pay bump.

edited to add this is for FEDERAL employees. Contracting has a whole different set of issues and rules. In general, I'd recommend going Federal to get experience and a clearance, then transition to contractor status later in your career. Whereas most Fed salaries will top out at 160K-ish, contractor salaries w/ bonus can be much higher (2x-4x). Downside is stability and employment risk, and working for a client rather then being the client.

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