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Generating music with expressive timing and dynamics

magenta.tensorflow.org

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Re: Generating music with expressive timing and dynamics

#11

Post by divenorth »

kastnerkyle wrote: post #3

This is stunning! Great stuff. Since the input and prediction is a single sequence, did you experiment with beamsearch/stochastic beamsearch decoding (maybe with additional diversity criteria)? I found that even simple models (markov chains) got a big diversity boost with a stochastic beamsearch - it might avoid the problems with low temperature repetition that could happen in a standard beamsearch. However, my music…

I think the choice of piano really sells the quality of the result. Musically it's not that great since it still sounds like random noodling. Much better than any other implementations that I've heard.

Re: Generating music with expressive timing and dynamics

#12

Post by 3131s »

divenorth wrote: post #10
3131s wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how many tries it took to get that. I've tried chopping up samples from piano music using onset detection and then recombining samples programmatically. The results were more interesting musically to me actually, but also not as reminiscent of a traditional classical / romantic piano piece. So, this is probably the best RNN generated music that I've heard too but overall I'm still not extremely impressed.

I'm passionate about this subject so here's my take on it. Until neural networks can create music better than humans it will be nothing more than table talk. Usually for something to gain any real traction it needs to solve a problem or do it better than current solutions. AI generated music does neither. From a music nerd who loves programming and neural networks I find this stuff very interesting. But I feel that n…

Yeah, I make electronic music and I'm really interested in algorithmic techniques as an aid to the composer too.

I have python scripts that just generate many minutes worth of music in an instant, and then I comb through the result and cut out the interesting parts for further processing. It's a really productive technique and you hit on melodies and rhythms that normally a human wouldn't.

Re: Generating music with expressive timing and dynamics

#14

Post by djaychela »

iheartmemcache wrote: post #6
contingo wrote: post #2

It's refreshing to hear generated piano music that isn't either strictly metrical or entirely freeform, but with patches where you do get a somewhat natural sense of rubato and sensitive dynamic shaping. It's sort of convincingly improvisatory. The constantly shifting harmonic idiom is disorienting in a not very pleasant way – the worst kind of Chopin + Ligeti mashup – especially when you raise the temperature. It wo…

> "It's sort of convincingly improvisatory." I'm not sure if it was the dynamics specifically, but it was clear to me that A was human. Within 30 seconds I was so sure, I hit pause and loaded the answer to see if I was right (I was, and I'm likely the worst pianist on these forums and only a casual fan of music that falls into the 'classical' genre.) Here's[0] a fabulous physics paper that analyses the 16th notes by…

I'd never seen the paper on Porcaro's drumming (or indeed really found anything as deep as this, I've done everything with my own very simple analysis), and it's fantastically detailed and looks very interesting. I'm a music tech teacher and producer, and this is an ideal bit of information for me to take in to help teach people how to make their sequencing more convincing. Thanks for posting it.

Re: Generating music with expressive timing and dynamics

#15

Post by te_chris »

divenorth wrote: post #10
3131s wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how many tries it took to get that. I've tried chopping up samples from piano music using onset detection and then recombining samples programmatically. The results were more interesting musically to me actually, but also not as reminiscent of a traditional classical / romantic piano piece. So, this is probably the best RNN generated music that I've heard too but overall I'm still not extremely impressed.

I'm passionate about this subject so here's my take on it. Until neural networks can create music better than humans it will be nothing more than table talk. Usually for something to gain any real traction it needs to solve a problem or do it better than current solutions. AI generated music does neither. From a music nerd who loves programming and neural networks I find this stuff very interesting. But I feel that n…

When I hear this I just think of Apple's Drummer Track in Logic X and what sort of cool generative tools could be developed that can be trained on different source inputs and such. It's really exciting.

Re: Generating music with expressive timing and dynamics

#16

Post by pasta »

DomreiRoam wrote: post #13

Could it mean that you could generate music for games that would follow the action and help build up tension?

This is already done in a lot of games. But those are precomposed parts that are dynamically morphed into each other when action changes.

Re: Generating music with expressive timing and dynamics

#17

Post by henearkr »

It seems that this model does not have any notion of "cadence" (the punctuation in musical grammar, given by harmony and tonality). The "expressivity" must be correlated to the harmony grammar, else it does not make sense. Unfortunately the samples in the article do not sound very good to me, and I am pretty sure that it is because of that.

Re: Generating music with expressive timing and dynamics

#18

Post by cr1895 »

hakcermani wrote: post #4

This can generate elevator music that will never repeat. I am up for that ! (Just getting into ML with Udacity, Coursera courses. This is just fascinating)

You may be interested in Brian Eno's Reflection:

http://www.generativemusic.com/reflection.html

Re: Generating music with expressive timing and dynamics

#19

Post by sirtaj »

3131s wrote: post #12
divenorth wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm passionate about this subject so here's my take on it. Until neural networks can create music better than humans it will be nothing more than table talk. Usually for something to gain any real traction it needs to solve a problem or do it better than current solutions. AI generated music does neither. From a music nerd who loves programming and neural networks I find this stuff very interesting. But I feel that n…

Yeah, I make electronic music and I'm really interested in algorithmic techniques as an aid to the composer too. I have python scripts that just generate many minutes worth of music in an instant, and then I comb through the result and cut out the interesting parts for further processing. It's a really productive technique and you hit on melodies and rhythms that normally a human wouldn't.

If not too inconvenient, I'd be interested to hear what tools and workflow you use to do this.

Re: Generating music with expressive timing and dynamics

#20

Post by DomreiRoam »

pasta wrote: post #16
DomreiRoam wrote: post #13

Could it mean that you could generate music for games that would follow the action and help build up tension?

This is already done in a lot of games. But those are precomposed parts that are dynamically morphed into each other when action changes.

Thanks, it make sense to do so. Do you know it they use use this approach only in game with a scenario or also in multi-user settings? Because in one case they can use static triggers where in the other case they would need to measure user's sensation or stress. I mean the music could be more intense if you are in abttle and your armor and health are quite low.
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