Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The nationwide roll-out of the 911 system was a difficult endeavor

tedium.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 58 posts

Re: The nationwide roll-out of the 911 system was a difficult endeavor

#11

Post by tjohns »

mercurysmessage wrote: post #7

I'd like to see one on the roll-out of Japans Earthquake Early Warning System.

Totally agree. I'd really love to see Japan's ETWS system rolled out on the US west coast.

I was in Japan earlier this year, and happened to be watching TV when the earthquake warning system cut in. It gave about 5-10 seconds of advance warning before an earthquake hit. Enough time to move out of the way of anything heavy. It's quite impressive.

If anyone's curious, this is what it looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAxxZkpV0HI

(The earthquake early warning cuts in at 0:15, and a tsunami warning automatically cuts in at 2:34... though most of the tsunami warning is cut off at the end. This is what the full earthquake+tsunami warning sequence looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMNu8Y1jIlU)

Re: The nationwide roll-out of the 911 system was a difficult endeavor

#13

Post by sp332 »

binarycrusader wrote: post #4
thspimpolds wrote: post #2

while I want to read this article, that font makes it impossible.

I think you're being a bit overdramatic, or there's a difference between your configuration and mine (FireFox Desktop). I find it quite readable, pleasantly so even.

The color of the body text is (102,102,102). That cuts your contrast just about in half.

Re: The nationwide roll-out of the 911 system was a difficult endeavor

#15

Post by trendia »

bostonpete wrote: post #9
kalleboo wrote: post #5

An example of the drawbacks of decentralization - meanwhile in Sweden, 98% of phones were already covered by the "90 000" emergency number by 1965.

Wow, that must've taken forever to dial on a rotary phone.

Still better than 0118 999 881 999 119 7253

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ab8GtuPdrUQ

Re: The nationwide roll-out of the 911 system was a difficult endeavor

#16

Post by bungie4 »

My job is upgrading and maintaining 911 and other life safety systems.

The article is correct, advancing technologies are not reflected by additional capabilities by PSAPs, DISA's or ILEC's (The ppl that foward your call to a responder). It was only recently that IP based 911 sending of ANI/ALI (Telephone/Location data) data has been implemented on a large scale. In Canada, it ran on an old packet switched network for ages!

Their are different flavors of 911. E911 (Enhanced), V911 for VoIP phones, and recently the addition of Wifi based calling among others. The original 911 systems was designed when phones were static, they didn't move. Nowadays, with cell, voip and now, wifi devices, theirs no telling where the call (device) originates from. Yes, most send long/lat data, but that is based on triangulation of cell towers and not accurate enough. To further complicate things, long/lat doesn't take into account altitude. In a urban setting, the responders maybe at ground level wondering just which building and floor originated the call (yes, their systems to deal with this but not widely implemented, and, failing that, if the caller is unable to speak, you have a larger issue).

Most responders don't even have the ability to map a long/lat. So at this point, the accuracy is moot.

All that being said. The E911 system works well. Cell/VoIP/Wifi, not so much. The call will generate a response, but it's hardly efficient.

Re: The nationwide roll-out of the 911 system was a difficult endeavor

#17

Post by eropple »

bungie4 wrote: post #16

My job is upgrading and maintaining 911 and other life safety systems. The article is correct, advancing technologies are not reflected by additional capabilities by PSAPs, DISA's or ILEC's (The ppl that foward your call to a responder). It was only recently that IP based 911 sending of ANI/ALI (Telephone/Location data) data has been implemented on a large scale. In Canada, it ran on an old packet switched network fo…

> Most responders don't even have the ability to map a long/lat. So at this point, the accuracy is moot.

This is genuinely surprising to me. The operators having trouble makes sense, because phones are something of a rolling disaster, but responders aren't using GPSes that can do this?

Re: The nationwide roll-out of the 911 system was a difficult endeavor

#18

Post by bungie4 »

eropple wrote: post #17
bungie4 wrote: post #16

My job is upgrading and maintaining 911 and other life safety systems. The article is correct, advancing technologies are not reflected by additional capabilities by PSAPs, DISA's or ILEC's (The ppl that foward your call to a responder). It was only recently that IP based 911 sending of ANI/ALI (Telephone/Location data) data has been implemented on a large scale. In Canada, it ran on an old packet switched network fo…

> Most responders don't even have the ability to map a long/lat. So at this point, the accuracy is moot. This is genuinely surprising to me. The operators having trouble makes sense, because phones are something of a rolling disaster, but responders aren't using GPSes that can do this?

I'm sorry, I should clarify. Their are many layers of 'responders', their maybe just one, your call was routed to the local police. It may have been routed to call center in that area, who in turn broker the call, etc.

Imagine a situation where your traveling down an interstate out in the boonies. Theirs a wreck. You call 911 from your cell. The responder will receive an approximation of your location, likely the closet cell tower. From that, and before being able to send a responder, they must determine WHO to call based on your location. Just because your closer to town B than town A doesn't mean town B gets the call. Town B may forward your call to town A. Then, you have to determine where to dispatch too. It's doubtful you know the closest mile marker. Only your direction of travel, and the last area that you can remember.

It's strictly a best effort.

Re: The nationwide roll-out of the 911 system was a difficult endeavor

#19

Post by MichaelGG »

bungie4 wrote: post #16

My job is upgrading and maintaining 911 and other life safety systems. The article is correct, advancing technologies are not reflected by additional capabilities by PSAPs, DISA's or ILEC's (The ppl that foward your call to a responder). It was only recently that IP based 911 sending of ANI/ALI (Telephone/Location data) data has been implemented on a large scale. In Canada, it ran on an old packet switched network fo…

Then there's the idea that they'll go totally internet based, allowing forwarding or conferencing in multiple psaps, translators, etc. Somehow, they're supposed to secure all this, but I'm doubtful. It'd be one of the largest secure federated networks in the world I think. And they aren't exactly tech savvy. Doing one of the first wide-scale VoIP 911 services, we had psaps call us to say they wouldn't take phone calls from VoIP users, even on their landlines, because "they might send us viruses".

NENA folks also wanted the FCC to mandate an IP location system to be available on every Internet connection - what a privacy mess that'd be, when any app with IP access could get your exact location down to the apt number.

I trie experimenting with what I named "Advanced 911". For calls to places where we couldn't deliver location info, we'd prompt the answer to press a key to have us speak the info. But getting adoption for that was super difficult.

Also, the stress involved in those jobs, wow. I thought I could handle stuff, but auditing problem calls where people were dying, panicking, and didn't know where they were - that's traumatic. Also made me really dislike how cavalier 911 is handled by the telecos.

Re: The nationwide roll-out of the 911 system was a difficult endeavor

#20

Post by eropple »

bungie4 wrote: post #18
eropple wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most responders don't even have the ability to map a long/lat. So at this point, the accuracy is moot. This is genuinely surprising to me. The operators having trouble makes sense, because phones are something of a rolling disaster, but responders aren't using GPSes that can do this?

I'm sorry, I should clarify. Their are many layers of 'responders', their maybe just one, your call was routed to the local police. It may have been routed to call center in that area, who in turn broker the call, etc. Imagine a situation where your traveling down an interstate out in the boonies. Theirs a wreck. You call 911 from your cell. The responder will receive an approximation of your location, likely the clo…

Gotcha - thank you for the detailed response.
Post reply on HN