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Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

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Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#11

Post by projectramo »

Q: Are we conflating two issues?

Is there a difference between the "sole developer problem" and the "lack of funding" problem.

I mean, even if a project finds funding, does it follow that it will attract more talented developers?

One way to distinguish the two issues is to look at for-profit software. In the cases where there is one primary developer, do they find it easy to keep the software going when the person retires?

I ask this because, I think, beyond the very real monetary issue, there is a question of how development works. Do we need one very talented individual who does the lion's share of the lifting?

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#13

Post by in9 »

jordigh wrote: post #9

Also a problem for Octave. Remember this? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13603575 It also stings a little when people say that it's completely obsolete because Matlab itself is "legacy" and we should all be abandoning the language, Octave included... and yet, even though I like numpy and Python and matplotlib and Julia and R, I still find myself reaching for Octave whenever I need a quick visualisation of some…

Really? Why is that? In my mind, it is tough to beat ggplot

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#15

Post by webmaven »

projectramo wrote: post #11

Q: Are we conflating two issues? Is there a difference between the "sole developer problem" and the "lack of funding" problem. I mean, even if a project finds funding, does it follow that it will attract more talented developers? One way to distinguish the two issues is to look at for-profit software. In the cases where there is one primary developer, do they find it easy to keep the software going when the person re…

> even if a project finds funding, does it follow that it will attract more talented developers?

It depends on what the funding is used for. Outreach in various forms (better documentation, presenting at conferences, a nicer website, moderating community venues from mailing lists to chat channels, triaging and grooming issues and PRs, etc.) takes time and effort (and therefore needs to be funded) as well.

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#16

Post by devoply »

rjbwork wrote: post #3

We have this problem in the .NET world. Accord.NET is written by a brilliant academic and programmer. It's well written, and has a good API, but it is largely the effort of this one dude, with minor contributions from a smattering of other fellows. Again, it is great in general, but it has bugs and rough edges here or there, and a lot of people don't trust it for production. I wish there was a way for people to be pr…

That's because people don't actually value free things, until they come to depend on them, and then there is no way for that to continue unless they pay. And even then they will pay the bare minimum to keep it going. That's the whole psychology behind open source. Companies could pay for it and those using it can more than afford to do so, but it's free, and apparently it's going to stay that way so why not ride that gravy train?

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#18

Post by ssivark »

There is a long-standing problem in open source software, which is that there is no "business model" associated with funneling resources to people putting significant effort into it. Setting up a consulting business to monetize software creates the perverse incentive to make software harder to use, but there seem to be some examples where this model has worked out reasonably.

Open source projects are typically started by people working in the field, who have a strong urge to scratch some itch. Even if we find a way to find money for them to work full-time, they often don't have the desire to "productize" software, or to create/nurture/govern an organization around bringing together different stakeholders who might be able to use, or contribute to the software. (We got really lucky with Linus+Linux)

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#19

Post by webmaven »

mattfrommars wrote: post #7

Ok, so the problem seems to be 'lack of maintainer' or could be stretched to contributer. The article later linked to https://www.slideshare.net/NadiaEghbal/consider-the-maintain... which kind of reminded me a problem which I'm facing. After getting through basic of "Introduction to Computer Science Using Python" and forever pending goal to become a "Python Developer", is anyone here who is experience in Python willi…

What sort of things ("Python development" is a bit nebulous) are you most interested in?

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#20

Post by danjoc »

>the entire scientific Python stack was essentially relying upon on the “free time” work of only about 30 people—and no one had funding!

30 people? I remember a time when a certain fruit company would enter a field, literally hire all 30 of those guys, and put them behind closed doors. Then in 2 years they'd dominate the field for the next decade.

Are these guys turning down offers? Or is the fruit company that poorly managed now?

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