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Leveling up as a Junior Engineer

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Re: Leveling up as a Junior Engineer

#11

Post by vhakulinen »

haburka wrote: post #10

In my opinion, side projects don't have to ship. Some people do need to ship side projects, some people do not. It's important to challenge yourself with code, absolutely, but enforcing deadlines on yourself is usually just met with disappointment when you don't do it. Additionally, by allowing yourself to stop working on side projects when you want, you can focus on doing the parts of coding that you enjoy which mea…

> In my opinion, side projects don't have to ship.

Totally agree. I have had tons of side projects and most of those have just been for fuzzing around with new and shiny (or old and solid) things. From side projects, I have "shipped" couple of apps but have gained the most experience from the ones that I haven't.

Also, the blog post mentions only books and blogs for reading. I've found that reading issue tracker/PR and other forums closer to actual code has sometimes been extremely helpful (in those cases, I tend to end up reading the code it self from time to time).

Re: Leveling up as a Junior Engineer

#12

Post by srdeveng »

IME, as someone who leveled up from jr to eventually sr in the same org over a 10yr period, the best advice I can give is be confident in your skills and be willing to take calculated risks.

Teams are always chasing deadlines and resolving unforeseen issues as they arise. The go-getter willing to volunteer to fix a problem that isn't already on their plate gets noticed.

You won't be assigned 'save the day' type work outright as a jr, but the team will find itself in a tight spot, and you need to volunteer to go above and beyond to help fix XYZ even though it's outside your domain.

If you succeed, you have everything to gain. Fail? You're the jr, at least you gave it the old college try while chipping away at your key tasks.

Re: Leveling up as a Junior Engineer

#13

Post by jandrewrogers »

zer0tonin wrote: post #8
djb_hackernews wrote: post #5

My advice: - Never call yourself a Junior Engineer. If you have experience, even just a little, you are an experienced engineer. - Develop your communication skills. The barrier to entry to start presenting at meetups is extremely low, do that with the goal of presenting at tech conferences. - Skip the side projects. Of the 10 or so water walkers I've worked with, 0 have github accounts. - Don't buy into the last par…

> Of the 10 or so water walkers I've worked with, 0 have github accounts. I have the complete opposite experience.

Many of the very best engineers are effectively prohibited from having Github projects. The deeper down the stack you are, or the more hardcore the computer science you work on, the more likely this is to be true because your primary work area is deemed a trade secret.

This isn't a major issue if you are an app developer because a side project app is unlikely to convey valuable trade secrets. A database kernel engineer, on the other hand, can't have any side projects related to databases that demonstrate their skill level because such a demonstration would violate their non-disclosure restrictions.

Re: Leveling up as a Junior Engineer

#14

Post by AngeloAnolin »

"At least one per year that you actually ship (the hard part) at a minimum."

I would say that this would probably be on top of my list, because shipping a working and usable software is a testament to all the learning, communication, mentoring and pairing that you would get as you level up.

Re: Leveling up as a Junior Engineer

#15

Post by enraged_camel »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #13
zer0tonin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of the 10 or so water walkers I've worked with, 0 have github accounts. I have the complete opposite experience.

Many of the very best engineers are effectively prohibited from having Github projects. The deeper down the stack you are, or the more hardcore the computer science you work on, the more likely this is to be true because your primary work area is deemed a trade secret. This isn't a major issue if you are an app developer because a side project app is unlikely to convey valuable trade secrets. A database kernel engine…

>>Many of the very best engineers are effectively prohibited from having Github projects.

Many, sure. But the OP's comment was "Of the 10 or so water walkers I've worked with, 0 have github accounts."

Surely people understand how asinine it is to believe that a sample size of 10 of OP's "water walkers" is a representative sample?

Re: Leveling up as a Junior Engineer

#16

Post by [deleted] »

djb_hackernews wrote: post #5

My advice: - Never call yourself a Junior Engineer. If you have experience, even just a little, you are an experienced engineer. - Develop your communication skills. The barrier to entry to start presenting at meetups is extremely low, do that with the goal of presenting at tech conferences. - Skip the side projects. Of the 10 or so water walkers I've worked with, 0 have github accounts. - Don't buy into the last par…

[deleted]

Re: Leveling up as a Junior Engineer

#17

Post by TurboHaskal »

How to level down as a Junior Engineer:

  1. Start with the kool-aid: Read Hackers and Painters.
  2. Appeal to your fragile ego: Read The Bipolar Lisp Programmer.
  3. Learn actually interesting stuff: Read On Lisp, PAIP, Lisp in Small Pieces,
     The * Schemer series.
  4. Implement your own Scheme. With the help of your dog.
  5. Further down the rabbit hole: Read SICP.
  6. Unlearn Java, JS and PHP. Reject job offers containing such keywords.
  7. Engage in CL vs Scheme internet flame wars.
  8. Spend the most of your fertile years trying to find the perfect Emacs
     configuration (spoiler: it doesn’t exist).
  9. When the choice arises: Choose to learn Shen instead of Clojure due to the
     latter being too impure for you.
Congratulations! You are now unhireable. Not that you would like a job anyway.

Re: Leveling up as a Junior Engineer

#18

Post by chasote »

enraged_camel wrote: post #15
jandrewrogers wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the very best engineers are effectively prohibited from having Github projects. The deeper down the stack you are, or the more hardcore the computer science you work on, the more likely this is to be true because your primary work area is deemed a trade secret. This isn't a major issue if you are an app developer because a side project app is unlikely to convey valuable trade secrets. A database kernel engine…

>>Many of the very best engineers are effectively prohibited from having Github projects. Many, sure. But the OP's comment was "Of the 10 or so water walkers I've worked with, 0 have github accounts." Surely people understand how asinine it is to believe that a sample size of 10 of OP's "water walkers" is a representative sample?

This comes off a little aggressive to me. People should be able to provide opinions and anecdotes on HN without the constant "citation needed" for everything. We all know everything isn't fully backed by 4 studies that will be presented here and now. Just say you disagree and offer why. It will probably be an anecdote too.

Re: Leveling up as a Junior Engineer

#19

Post by mrisoli »

srdeveng wrote: post #12

IME, as someone who leveled up from jr to eventually sr in the same org over a 10yr period, the best advice I can give is be confident in your skills and be willing to take calculated risks. Teams are always chasing deadlines and resolving unforeseen issues as they arise. The go-getter willing to volunteer to fix a problem that isn't already on their plate gets noticed. You won't be assigned 'save the day' type work…

Leveling up in the same org is all about the company's cost.

Some companies(especially bigger ones with names that attract new grads) will deny you a promotion if they believe you are cheap to replace(denying a promotion often leads to employee unsatisfaction which causes them to leave).

Most companies, especially if they are having problems finding new engineers, will just give you a promotion to keep you happy and because they can't afford the time and costs of losing and employee, find and train the next one.

However, I think the article is more about personal improvement than proper leveling up within an organization, in which case it's not about being noticed.

Re: Leveling up as a Junior Engineer

#20

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

srdeveng wrote: post #12

IME, as someone who leveled up from jr to eventually sr in the same org over a 10yr period, the best advice I can give is be confident in your skills and be willing to take calculated risks. Teams are always chasing deadlines and resolving unforeseen issues as they arise. The go-getter willing to volunteer to fix a problem that isn't already on their plate gets noticed. You won't be assigned 'save the day' type work…

Also, if the problem is above your skill level: take something routine off the plate of a senior engineer to free them up to tackle the big problem.

The work was going to get reassigned anyway, because it's more important that the senior guy fix a release blocking issue than do that work, but it makes you a proactive part of the solution, even when you can't directly contribute: you're still helping make sure all the ducks are in a row for release.

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