Coming from someone who uses python but doesn't really follow alternative compilers, PyPy sounds great. What are some of the downsides, if any? Are you sacrificing library compatibility for faster core+standard libs?
PyPy v5.8 released
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Re: PyPy v5.8 released
#12I have a question and then a general vent 1. Does anyone know the latest update on NumPyPy? PyPy for me is just not a usable proposition because I heavily use Numpy (and Scipy et al). So I am forced to use slow Python + fast Numpy or slow Numpy + fast Python. Very saddening. The C-Extension is just so off the pace, NumPyPy was meant to solve that quandry. And I know some smart Alec will trot out the usual 'downshift…
I think the core devs are doing a fine job with CPython as the reference implementation and developing PyPy takes a different set of expertise; JIT and compilers specifically.
I think sponsorship of PyPy would be welcome -- but it seems non-obvious where that would come from.
Javascript has the fortune of being the language that drives a very important platform -- and Chrome has been a particularly strategic investment for Google to have more control over the web than it ever has before. Java has Android... Python unfortunately doesn't have that sort of standing in any area that I'm aware of.
Re: PyPy v5.8 released
#13Coming from someone who uses python but doesn't really follow alternative compilers, PyPy sounds great. What are some of the downsides, if any? Are you sacrificing library compatibility for faster core+standard libs?
Your favorite C-extension may not support it.
Re: PyPy v5.8 released
#14I have a question and then a general vent 1. Does anyone know the latest update on NumPyPy? PyPy for me is just not a usable proposition because I heavily use Numpy (and Scipy et al). So I am forced to use slow Python + fast Numpy or slow Numpy + fast Python. Very saddening. The C-Extension is just so off the pace, NumPyPy was meant to solve that quandry. And I know some smart Alec will trot out the usual 'downshift…
> Do they just philosophically not agree with PyPy or is it just disinterest?
I think Guido wants the reference implementation to have a simple and straightforward codebase, a JIT is anything but that.
Re: PyPy v5.8 released
#15PyPy is great -- while I still use CPython for our more complex webapp and associated tools that have heavy dependencies on C-extensions; I increasingly use PyPy for the more mundane cpu/data heavy lifting I do. It's typical to get 2X the performance (comparable to some compiled languages) and still use much of our utility code, configs, etc.
>comparable to some compiled languages Given that python programs usually run an order of magnitude slower than compiled languages even a 2x performance increase doesn't put it in the "comparable" range from my experience. Not bashing python - I use it regularly - but for computational stuff it's a hog unless you're just passing stuff to C libs - like I have a resource build pipeline that does some blender 3D model t…
As long as you use the python procedures that are written in C you will not really get much by using pypy. Try it yourself, write some IO and string heavy code and compare. [1]
But as you say: for numeric computations python is slow as molasses.
[1] or just look at something like https://github.com/juditacs/wordcount/blob/master/README.md . The simple py2 version is 2.5 times slower than a java version someone spent a lot of time writing, and less than 2 times slower than a reasonably straightforward C program.
Re: PyPy v5.8 released
#16I have a question and then a general vent 1. Does anyone know the latest update on NumPyPy? PyPy for me is just not a usable proposition because I heavily use Numpy (and Scipy et al). So I am forced to use slow Python + fast Numpy or slow Numpy + fast Python. Very saddening. The C-Extension is just so off the pace, NumPyPy was meant to solve that quandry. And I know some smart Alec will trot out the usual 'downshift…
I can't answer how numpypy is going, but Numba works pretty well for me to write fast numeric code in python. A bit restricted language and installing llvm is a bit of a hassle, but overall it's great.
That's CPython and the reason you're not noticing its slow is probably because most of your time is spent computing inside compiled library functions.
Re: PyPy v5.8 released
#17Coming from someone who uses python but doesn't really follow alternative compilers, PyPy sounds great. What are some of the downsides, if any? Are you sacrificing library compatibility for faster core+standard libs?
In addition to being incompatible with (some) third-party libraries, pypy tends to use significantly more memory than cpython. It's also slower than cpython for scripts that don't run long enough to warm up the JIT, so you probably wouldn't want to use it by default. (Disclaimer: I'm basing this on experience with older versions of pypy and haven't verified it recently)
Re: PyPy v5.8 released
#18Coming from someone who uses python but doesn't really follow alternative compilers, PyPy sounds great. What are some of the downsides, if any? Are you sacrificing library compatibility for faster core+standard libs?
Numpy support is iffy.
How is the Python 3 support these days?
Re: PyPy v5.8 released
#19I have a question and then a general vent 1. Does anyone know the latest update on NumPyPy? PyPy for me is just not a usable proposition because I heavily use Numpy (and Scipy et al). So I am forced to use slow Python + fast Numpy or slow Numpy + fast Python. Very saddening. The C-Extension is just so off the pace, NumPyPy was meant to solve that quandry. And I know some smart Alec will trot out the usual 'downshift…
I agree writing C extensions is not a solution. It is evidently too hard. Even the standard pickle library in Python 3 has a memory corruption bug. http://bugs.python.org/issue23655
Re: PyPy v5.8 released
#20I have a question and then a general vent 1. Does anyone know the latest update on NumPyPy? PyPy for me is just not a usable proposition because I heavily use Numpy (and Scipy et al). So I am forced to use slow Python + fast Numpy or slow Numpy + fast Python. Very saddening. The C-Extension is just so off the pace, NumPyPy was meant to solve that quandry. And I know some smart Alec will trot out the usual 'downshift…
I desperately want numpy, pandas and scipy on pypy3
Then I can ditch Cpython and its stockholm syndrome slowness forever