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The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

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Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#11

Was it Josephus who called Christians "literal minded fools" for believing in the literal truth of the same foundational myth of so many other religions at that time? To take a myth literally does it disservice; there is value in the basic myth of a dead, dying, and reborn god. If you don't think so, then you are incapable of understanding and appreciating "American Gods" properly as well as any other aspect of relig…

>Was it Josephus who called Christians "literal minded fools" for believing in the literal truth of the same foundational myth of so many other religions at that time? To take a myth literally does it disservice

Or does it? Because taking it literally can also give you certain powers and certain outcomes that you cannot get from merely treating it as myth (strength of conviction, for one).

That said, even old Christians were quite complex creatures, and they have been able historically to both take christianity it literally and not take it literally, in intricate psychological ways. It was more of a philosophy for orthodox christians and more of a morality mythology for catholics, when protestants brought it back to naive literal interpretation.

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#12
Although the subject matter is captivating and the article well written, the whole thing left a bitter taste in my mouth. It really does seem to be the case that charismatic individuals can, as a rule of thumb, get away with almost anything at all.

I do understand the need to escape the "tedium of life" as one of the witches put it but it's still highly irritating to see otherwise normal people be consumed by conmen. I like to think it wouldn't happen to me, but seeing how skilled this guy was I'm starting to believe I would fall prey to someone like him just as easily as those women did.

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#13
post #12

Although the subject matter is captivating and the article well written, the whole thing left a bitter taste in my mouth. It really does seem to be the case that charismatic individuals can, as a rule of thumb, get away with almost anything at all. I do understand the need to escape the "tedium of life" as one of the witches put it but it's still highly irritating to see otherwise normal people be consumed by conmen.…

Whilst there are of course vulnerable individuals who fall prey, are captivated and consumed by conmen, I think that's making things too simply - it's both more truthful, more difficult and more worrying to say that these individuals have their own choice, and freedom to make it.

It's more comforting to think that people are kidnapped, brainwashed and forced to do and think things by evil men - it takes all responsibility from the equation - that people are in this case "seekers", that they choose to live in this way, that there are benefits in living that life. Cults can be good!

It's not helpful to believe this if you want to leave a cult of course! And its not helpful to believe that truth in the future when you look back at your time - better to think it was all wrong. To admit to yourself that you played a part in your membership and had enjoyed some or most is much harder than believing you had no choice. If I was in that situation, I would certainly choose to believe I was 100% a victim - it's healthier, better and logical for me to do so.

So actually thinking that these people are vulnerable, weak, had no choice, were made prey of, were captitvated, hypnotised and consumed by an evil conman is actually a psychologically easier and often better thing to do! (if not really factual or truthful)

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#14
post #13
post #12

Although the subject matter is captivating and the article well written, the whole thing left a bitter taste in my mouth. It really does seem to be the case that charismatic individuals can, as a rule of thumb, get away with almost anything at all. I do understand the need to escape the "tedium of life" as one of the witches put it but it's still highly irritating to see otherwise normal people be consumed by conmen.…

Whilst there are of course vulnerable individuals who fall prey, are captivated and consumed by conmen, I think that's making things too simply - it's both more truthful, more difficult and more worrying to say that these individuals have their own choice, and freedom to make it. It's more comforting to think that people are kidnapped, brainwashed and forced to do and think things by evil men - it takes all responsib…

Wanting something doesn't imply benefitting from it, though. The world is full of things that try to exploit your wanting mechanism without providing benefit (or even enjoyment that matches the wanting). You can say that an individual's job is only wanting things that will be good for them, but that's an awfully hard job. Society should help with that, e.g. by teaching children to distrust dreams that promise too much.

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#15
post #13
post #12

Although the subject matter is captivating and the article well written, the whole thing left a bitter taste in my mouth. It really does seem to be the case that charismatic individuals can, as a rule of thumb, get away with almost anything at all. I do understand the need to escape the "tedium of life" as one of the witches put it but it's still highly irritating to see otherwise normal people be consumed by conmen.…

Whilst there are of course vulnerable individuals who fall prey, are captivated and consumed by conmen, I think that's making things too simply - it's both more truthful, more difficult and more worrying to say that these individuals have their own choice, and freedom to make it. It's more comforting to think that people are kidnapped, brainwashed and forced to do and think things by evil men - it takes all responsib…

It's not so much that I deny that these people had agency but rather that I think that the way the brain works makes charisma the single most important trait in terms of determining what a person can achieve. I am more annoyed by the victims and their poor choices than the conman himself, to be honest. Once charismatic people discover what they can do, the temptation to use those powers is simply too great to resist from their perspective.

As I said, I believe that I am vulnerable to these types myself, but I do not regard myself as having no choice. Instead, I am simply aware that some aspects of social interaction mean that charismatic people can exert a stronger influence on my choices than many other factors, and that I'm capable to make choices that seem logical under the influence of strong emotion but seem utterly stupid in retrospect. Once again, not denying agency but being cognizant of its limitations.

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#16

Was it Josephus who called Christians "literal minded fools" for believing in the literal truth of the same foundational myth of so many other religions at that time? To take a myth literally does it disservice; there is value in the basic myth of a dead, dying, and reborn god. If you don't think so, then you are incapable of understanding and appreciating "American Gods" properly as well as any other aspect of relig…

I don't think it was Josephus TBH. He makes very, very few references to Christianity and those he makes are subject to some doubts as to their complete authenticity.

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#17
I first heard of Castaneda 7 years ago when I was at university. I started with the first book "The Teachings of Don Juan" and proceeded with reading all his other works. I was fascinated not only with the story he was telling but more so, the practical wisdom he revealed.

One of the techniques he revealed in his books for expanding your awareness as a human being was to consciously diffuse your gaze for long stretches of time. In other words, in your day to day life, most people, myself included, navigate through the world with fixed vision. If I were to walk down a hallway or through a hiking trail, I would normally look at a tree, then maybe at a bird, then maybe some clouds might catch my attention, squirrel jumps off a log, etc. and I would go on like this. His suggestion was to take in the whole panoramic view, constantly engaged in peripheral vision, not focusing on any one particular object, for hours at a time. After consistent experimenting with this particular technique, I came to one realization that it was a tool that can be used to quiet the mind, similar to a sorts of meditation. It was my introduction to the study of energy (I study Internal Martial Arts).

There were other practical wisdoms embodied in his texts and that held my attention for many years. It wasn't until recently that I began to read of Castaneda and the shadows that began to surround his legacy. To be honest, it didn't take away from the treasure of his stories and wisdom. Most, if not all his concepts, can be traced back in time to different religions, groups of people, other yogis and individuals, etc. I believe that ideas and methodologies do not belong to any individuals. They are just mediums that the universe uses to express its consciousness. We say if it weren't for scientist X, this theory wouldn't come to fruition but who knows? I remember reading once about an important theory that a scientist discovered (galileo?) that another scientist was uncovering at about the same time but got beaten to the punch. They were not in the same geographic region but it was interesting to read about an idea being ripe and wanting to be expressed to who is available and able. I digress.

Castaneda had a positive influence on many people and a negative influence on others, as the stories in the article revealed. Such is the way of humanity and life, and you make your mark on this world however you see fit. One door opens, another one closes. Castaneda was the first to open up doors for me, so he has a special place in my heart, as imperfect as he may have been.

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#18
Those this way interested might also find rewarding the Illuminatus! trilogy by Shea and Wilson; it pretends no special mystical insight, has served as the foundational myth of approximately zero cults (fewer than Heinlein!), and includes at least one dolphin. Does Castaneda have dolphins? Well, I haven't read him myself, but the closest thing the Internet knows about is a College of Staten Island Dolphin Athletics - I suppose I would've thought they are athletic enough already, but go figure - which apparently boasts a star swimmer sharing the name. So instead of Castaneda having dolphins, we find that the situation is precisely opposite, and indeed the dolphins have Castaneda, which is probably just as well for him, since dolphins are constitutionally immune to bullshit and he will likely have a much less complicated life this time around. And, since Illuminatus! has dolphins, by the transitive relation we know that Illuminatus! is a strict superset of Castaneda, and therefore more worth reading, or at least more worth reading first.

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#19
A bit odd the author of this article published a novel called "A Separate Reality". He could have at least tried to think of an original title.

A Separate Reality - the original Castaneda novel is a lot of fun. Painfully obvious it's fiction, almost fairytale-like, but highly entertaining. Not to mention the wisdom for a twenty-something receptive to any "grounded" life-hack and spiritual skills that aren't delivered from certified curriculums, or worse your parents. I remember one of the books taught me literally how to walk properly, via one of Don Juan's scolding remarks to the apprentice as they hiked up the mountain! Great stuff.

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