11–20 of 59 posts
It's hard to understand this when you live in a first world nation. We have that problem but to a very minor degree relative to much of the world.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nod. If I start life tied to a load of bricks, and you start in a Ferrari, I can do a helluva lot more than you and still get nowhere. The history of slavery should be ample proof of that. It's one thing to say that "We should ask what are the causes of wealth and try to recreate and reproduce them." It's another thing entirely to deny that there are no structural, sociological barriers to escaping poverty.
You'd be astonished at how many who start out with the Ferrari wreck it in short order and how many who start out with bricks become very strong because of it. People who start out with wealth seldom create wealth. In the best cases, they usually just administer it. Its the people who start out with the bricks that seem to end up creating the wealth. Slavery and poverty are different economic relationships altogether…
>>People who start out with wealth seldom create wealth.What is the basis of that statement? Bill Gates was born to a very wealthy family. Warren Buffet was born to a stockbroker-turned-Congressman, so definitely at least upper middle class. Carlos Slim Helu has been quoted saying "I came from a wealthy family. I have always had money."
Seems the top three wealth-generators in the world were born wealthy. They attended Harvard, Columbia, and the university consistently ranked the best in Latin America, respectively.
The only thing I'm astonished at is that there are people who have so little understanding of how the world works that they think poverty and wealth are not both self-perpetuating.
If I were a criminal defense lawyer, murder would cease to be a crime. After all, there are no causes of death; it is the rest state, that which happens when you do nothing ... In fact there are plenty of causes of poverty -- war, corruption, disease, overpopulation, debt, ecological destruction, etc.
"If you want to experience poverty, just do nothing and it will come." I know lots of people - the working poor - who are doing a hell of a lot more than nothing, and poverty still comes.
I know lots of people Just wondering--do you really know "lots of people" who are among the "working poor"? I come from Appalachia and have known--genuinely, no bullshit here--lots of "working poor" and can't honestly say that there was some systematic conspiracy to hold them down, rough them up, prevent them from rising, etc. Fact is: There are a lot of people living in the lap of luxury--luxury measured by creature…
If I were a criminal defense lawyer, murder would cease to be a crime. After all, there are no causes of death; it is the rest state, that which happens when you do nothing ... In fact there are plenty of causes of poverty -- war, corruption, disease, overpopulation, debt, ecological destruction, etc.
Murder, because it involves another actor, misses the point.
That is, unless you believe that some people "make" other people poor during the course of regular life -- an odd and unsupported statement.
I would agree that there are plenty causes of people losing what they own. Seems to me, however, that no matter how much money you have, you cease to be poor once you move beyond looking to external actors for the source of your internal pain. Or perhaps that statement is a bit too Zen for the board. Dunno.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know lots of people Just wondering--do you really know "lots of people" who are among the "working poor"? I come from Appalachia and have known--genuinely, no bullshit here--lots of "working poor" and can't honestly say that there was some systematic conspiracy to hold them down, rough them up, prevent them from rising, etc. Fact is: There are a lot of people living in the lap of luxury--luxury measured by creature…
There are lots of examples of poor people who are hard working and still poor, and lots of examples of wealthy people who fell into it. There is no moral value to wealth and to say so not only insults our intelligence but attempts to justify terrible injustices.
If I were a criminal defense lawyer, murder would cease to be a crime. After all, there are no causes of death; it is the rest state, that which happens when you do nothing ... In fact there are plenty of causes of poverty -- war, corruption, disease, overpopulation, debt, ecological destruction, etc.
The correct analogy would be suicide -- stop eating, drinking, and breathing, and you enter the "rest state" Murder, because it involves another actor, misses the point. That is, unless you believe that some people "make" other people poor during the course of regular life -- an odd and unsupported statement. I would agree that there are plenty causes of people losing what they own. Seems to me, however, that no matt…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The correct analogy would be suicide -- stop eating, drinking, and breathing, and you enter the "rest state" Murder, because it involves another actor, misses the point. That is, unless you believe that some people "make" other people poor during the course of regular life -- an odd and unsupported statement. I would agree that there are plenty causes of people losing what they own. Seems to me, however, that no matt…
The murder suicide analogy is perfect, both end in death (poverty) but you can get their either by youself (suicide) or by the actions of others (murder). Calling poverty a rest state is to ignore all the outside forces that can be impairing a persons ability to create wealth. You can indeed make other people poor, and its not always a crime to do so, nor require them to be complicit in it. I think most people here f…
I would also distinguish between "making somebody poor" and "poverty", which is a state of existence. Likewise, I would also distinguish between internal poverty, ie, despair, and external poverty -- lack of money.
The definitions always get you on these things. For instance, most people are familiar with studies that show "the rich get richer while the poor get poorer" in some western societies like the United States. What readers fail to gleam from these studies is that while the numbers for the quintiles do show those movements, people move around between quintiles a lot more than is acknowledged. So when we say the poor get poorer, we are confusing the statistical average of a category of random people with actual, real people. Actual, real people move about in income levels quite a bit. The statistical bottom fifth of people in general, however, is not doing so well.
Likewise when we talk about poverty, or the economy, or social policy, we're dealing in large, averaged groups of things, not individual people. It makes a difference because we are individual, unique people, not statistical clumps.
I'm not saying that the internal attitudes of a person is enough to overcome any external obstacle. What I am saying is that the way we internalize external challenges is a better measure of anti-poverty and future happiness than the amount of money we have in the bank. Therefore, you cannot "kill" me, make me poor, by taking away my money. My internal wealth is outside of your ability to change.
If I were a criminal defense lawyer, murder would cease to be a crime. After all, there are no causes of death; it is the rest state, that which happens when you do nothing ... In fact there are plenty of causes of poverty -- war, corruption, disease, overpopulation, debt, ecological destruction, etc.