Live data from Hacker News

Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

blog.mozilla.org

11–20 of 251 posts

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#11
post #2

Aadhaar is one of those programs which is a solution looking for a problem, at huge cost of privacy, security and government surveillance. See https://rethinkaadhaar.in/myths/

Agreed but even most of the very literate ones does not understand the implication. Everyone is so gung-ho about having a single identity tied back to bio-metric data that highlighting the privacy concerns and historical misuse have no effect.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#12
post #6

This is ridiculous fearmongering at a scale unseen before, given the enormous amount of corruption in Indian public distribution schemes, Aadhar has potential to be revolutionary in not only reducing corruption but also in providing poor people in India with assistance that they currently lack. Its easy to be a rich and employed in SF and pontificate about how other countries should run their government. Mozilla is e…

> Finally any Indian in USA simply has no right to criticize Aadhar since the US Visa process requires biometrics from all visitors.

This is BS because getting a visa is a conscious choice, Aadhar is forced upon India's residents. You're attacking people for having an opinion that's contrary to yours.

About your other points - no one is denying the benefits of having a strong unique ID system that lets people interface with government services; the problem is that Aadhar has no safeguards for privacy - which you would've focused on had you bothered to read the article.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#13
post #12
post #6

This is ridiculous fearmongering at a scale unseen before, given the enormous amount of corruption in Indian public distribution schemes, Aadhar has potential to be revolutionary in not only reducing corruption but also in providing poor people in India with assistance that they currently lack. Its easy to be a rich and employed in SF and pontificate about how other countries should run their government. Mozilla is e…

> Finally any Indian in USA simply has no right to criticize Aadhar since the US Visa process requires biometrics from all visitors. This is BS because getting a visa is a conscious choice, Aadhar is forced upon India's residents. You're attacking people for having an opinion that's contrary to yours. About your other points - no one is denying the benefits of having a strong unique ID system that lets people interfa…

You are the one full of bullshit because if you are okay with surrendering your biometrics to a foreign government (especially the country where Mozilla is based out of) you don't have any right to complain about your own country seeking similar access.

The article is written by people with political agenda, Aadhar is million times better than SSN or other such systems. I am extremely well versed with Security & Privacy related to authentication & identification, and most comments/articles offer no concrete solutions. Biometrics are essential to establishing unique identity.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Finally any Indian in USA simply has no right to criticize Aadhar since the US Visa process requires biometrics from all visitors. This is BS because getting a visa is a conscious choice, Aadhar is forced upon India's residents. You're attacking people for having an opinion that's contrary to yours. About your other points - no one is denying the benefits of having a strong unique ID system that lets people interfa…

You are the one full of bullshit because if you are okay with surrendering your biometrics to a foreign government (especially the country where Mozilla is based out of) you don't have any right to complain about your own country seeking similar access. The article is written by people with political agenda, Aadhar is million times better than SSN or other such systems. I am extremely well versed with Security & Priv…

I don't know what kind of world you live in, where you cannot believe that people can take a principled stand about a policy. Why can I not worry about my family's data being shared free-for-all by random startups that use their "Open API"?

Not everything is about X team vs Y team.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#16

Replace aadhar with SSN and this would still (mostly) hold true. The only difference is biometric backin in aadhar. Silly PR

I don't really have a pony in this race, but logically, there is a difference. There are strict government laws in place to protect SSN information, such laws do not exist (apparently) in India regarding Aadhar. I don't think the argument is (mostly) about having a national ID, but about the lack of privacy of that information. Of course biometrics are bad in another way... If one needed to, you could change an ID number, you can't change your fingerprints

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#17

Seriously Mozilla? The Indian ID drive has ensured that benefits make it to the people who need them without 80% of it being skimmed by corrupt bureaucrats. Having a real identification gives very poor individuals the identification necessary to open bank accounts and interact with the financial sector. It's the first really reliable census data for a lot of areas. It's disgusting that Mozilla sits there and pontific…

> In 50 years, when a couple hundred million Indians aren't having trouble getting enough to eat because their government subsidies were stolen, then maybe it's worth having this conversation

And how having bio-metric ID solves problem of stolen subsidies? Every time a subsidy is stolen, aaddhar card will shoot an arrow into corrupt bureaucrats.

Our poor does not have access to Education and Law so they don't really know where to seek justice.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#18

Seriously Mozilla? The Indian ID drive has ensured that benefits make it to the people who need them without 80% of it being skimmed by corrupt bureaucrats. Having a real identification gives very poor individuals the identification necessary to open bank accounts and interact with the financial sector. It's the first really reliable census data for a lot of areas. It's disgusting that Mozilla sits there and pontific…

>The Indian ID drive has ensured that benefits make it to the people who need them without 80% of it being skimmed by corrupt bureaucrats.

Before the Aadhar, when the Govt. started distributing PIN enabled smartcards to villagers (for food/cash transfers/employment), corrupt officials just started forcing villagers to give up their PIN and give up part of their balance if they wanted to see their food/cash/jobs.

A similar thing is going to happen / probably already happening with Aadhaar where local officials are going to force folks to give up part of their cash/jobs/rations if they want to see any of it, even after these people use their fingerprints/whatever to access whatever they are entitled to.

One of the reasons this biometric ID project was launched was purportedly to get rid of duplicate/fake IDs. (We already have a zillion ID systems - PAN, Driver's licence, Passports, Voter Id, Ration cards, NREGA Id, etc). However by 2013 itself, the govt. said it had detected 34,000 duplicate/fake Aadhaar IDs already. The real number is probably much higher and growing. There are several instances of biometric Aadhaar ID cards successfully registered for dogs as well!

Several Govt. organizations have already leaked (most accessible via a Google search) ~135 million Aadhar numbers along with names, addresses, photos [1]. The incompetent officials simply do not give a fuck about privacy/security.

The problem isn't ID/biometrics but lack of law enforcement which is going to be a problem regardless of Aadhaar. The current leadership vehemently opposed Aadhar due to privacy concerns before the elections, and immediately changed tune.

The danger with hogwash projects such as Aadhar (other than surveilance/loss of privacy/centralizing of power) is that they masquerade as solutions to problem which they never solve in the first place. The poor and hungry will still fucked in the end, but the new surveilance/censorship regime will be here to stay.

If serving the poor is the cause, why is a biometric ID needed (Adhaar is being made compulsory for:) for air travel, rail travel, getting a cellular connection, appearing for high school/university board exams! The Govt. now has a central kill switch to end a dissenting person's life simply by cancelling/blocking their ID! If not by malice then definitely by incompetence at the very least is going to get the lives of scores of people ruined. This project is a disaster and Mozilla is being polite in it's criticism.

[1]http://www.livemint.com/Politics/oj7ky556p6vdljXpRw8gPP/135-...

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#19
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Finally any Indian in USA simply has no right to criticize Aadhar since the US Visa process requires biometrics from all visitors. This is BS because getting a visa is a conscious choice, Aadhar is forced upon India's residents. You're attacking people for having an opinion that's contrary to yours. About your other points - no one is denying the benefits of having a strong unique ID system that lets people interfa…

You are the one full of bullshit because if you are okay with surrendering your biometrics to a foreign government (especially the country where Mozilla is based out of) you don't have any right to complain about your own country seeking similar access. The article is written by people with political agenda, Aadhar is million times better than SSN or other such systems. I am extremely well versed with Security & Priv…

The level of national discourse in India has reached such a low point that questioning or raising doubts about any of the government's policies/actions leads to one being labelled a traitor to the country.

It is depressing to see such knee jerk reactions to healthy discussion, short on facts and long on emotions.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#20
All people criticising Aadhar for being insecure frankly don't have a real solution in place. Being an Indian citizen I know and have experienced benefit owing to Aadhar. I get subsidies from the government, one uniform identity that I can use to get important things.

Coming to the security part, which centralised biometric DB doesn't have risks. Social Security Number in the US is pretty similar. No one gets security right the first time and nothing is secure forever.

Mozilla being such a nice organisation with so many good initiatives. Why don't it come forward and dedicate some of its resources in helping out the Indian Government? Wouldn't that be better than just criticising without knowing any ground reality of how things operate in India?

Post reply on HN