It's scary how coverage of this match in China, which is extensive, actually manages to censor the association between Deepmind and Google.
AlphaGo's next move
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Re: AlphaGo's next move
#12I remember vividly in 1997 when Deep Blue defeated Kasparov, and I was a competitive chess player. The mystique of the game was immediately lost for me, and I never found the passion for the game that I once had. My heart goes out to the sea of Go players now searching for meaning in the game. At the very least we can take this signal as a true indicator that our world is close to being completely upheaved by intelli…
There are several activities right now that people keep doing despite machines being better suited: martial arts (and more in point, HEMA[1]), handicrafts, several Olympic sports. Why would anyone attempt to run a marathon under two hours, when any car can do it in 30 minutes?
I think the answer lies less in "I will be the absolute best", and more along the lines of "I will do it better than anyone before me". And sometimes, even "I will do my best" is an excellent reason for doing things.
I don't think Go players were in it due to a need for expertise that machines could not fulfill until now. And if people nowadays keep practicing with swords several centuries after the invention of firearms, Go players will do just fine.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_European_martial_ar...
Re: AlphaGo's next move
#13It's scary how coverage of this match in China, which is extensive, actually manages to censor the association between Deepmind and Google.
The microphones used in the post match discussion featured the name “Google” quite prominently. I imagine that was a negotiated detail.
Re: AlphaGo's next move
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bit hyperbolic. Go at it's heart is a pretty basic game, just tricky combinatorics. The fact that you can do unsupervised learning simplifies it even more. I think there are much better true indicators, such as better translation, speech to text, auto driving, etc.
> Go at it's heart is a pretty basic game, just tricky combinatorics. This goes for every turn based game and a lot of card games as well. If you just had perfect memory you'd be a formidable chess and cards player.
in a way, life is just a simple game with tricky combinatorics, and fairly trivial to attack with the tools of unsupervised learning.
Re: AlphaGo's next move
#15Congratulations to Deepmind and Google for this tremendous achievement. However, it is disappointing that the code and model will not be released publicly after Alphago finishes competitive play. It's one thing to say that an apple, once dropped, will fall to the ground, but another to describe its motion as 1/2at^2 + vt.
Though if they released the code Tencent would incorporate it in their rival so I can see the argument for delaying a bit.
Re: AlphaGo's next move
#16Congratulations to Deepmind and Google for this tremendous achievement. However, it is disappointing that the code and model will not be released publicly after Alphago finishes competitive play. It's one thing to say that an apple, once dropped, will fall to the ground, but another to describe its motion as 1/2at^2 + vt.
Though if they released the code Tencent would incorporate it in their rival so I can see the argument for delaying a bit.
If it's retired from competitive play, it no longer has a rival.
Re: AlphaGo's next move
#17I find it interesting that AlphaGo improves its play by playing against itself. I wonder what the limits of this are.
Re: AlphaGo's next move
#18I remember vividly in 1997 when Deep Blue defeated Kasparov, and I was a competitive chess player. The mystique of the game was immediately lost for me, and I never found the passion for the game that I once had. My heart goes out to the sea of Go players now searching for meaning in the game. At the very least we can take this signal as a true indicator that our world is close to being completely upheaved by intelli…
I, too, remember this. I'm very close to the chess engine scene, and while people (such as replies to this thread) have tried to argue that engine development has not taken away from chess, I'm afraid their misguided.
Anybody paying attention to top level chess knows that it has turned into mind bogglingly boring forced draw lines due to engine analysis. I've seen super GMs argue that analysis is so deep now that "e4" openings for white may be unplayable due to how rapidly black can equalize. Romantic play has been all but squeezed out of chess, which is why there has been renewed demand for blitz chess and murmurs that it may one day supplant standard chess as the main World Championship.
The replies miss out that improvements in, say, automobile speed don't impact how marathon runners run their races. But improvements in AI due modify how cognitive (rather than physical) games are played. There is a trade off that is unavoidable. I imagine Go will now become over analyzed just like chess where the top players memorize spreadsheets full of opening moves.
Fortunately, there are variants of chess like Zhouse, which still appear too complex for engine to dominate any position (although they will defeat any human), and for which nearly every move is romantic still.
Re: AlphaGo's next move
#19I remember vividly in 1997 when Deep Blue defeated Kasparov, and I was a competitive chess player. The mystique of the game was immediately lost for me, and I never found the passion for the game that I once had. My heart goes out to the sea of Go players now searching for meaning in the game. At the very least we can take this signal as a true indicator that our world is close to being completely upheaved by intelli…
There are several activities right now that people keep doing despite machines being better suited: martial arts (and more in point, HEMA[1]), handicrafts, several Olympic sports. Why would anyone attempt to run a marathon under two hours, when any car can do it in 30 minutes? I think the answer lies less in "I will be the absolute best", and more along the lines of "I will do it better than anyone before me". And so…
It does feel like there's a difference–maybe Go and Chess are just so much closer to what defines humanity than any physical sports?
Re: AlphaGo's next move
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Go at it's heart is a pretty basic game, just tricky combinatorics. This goes for every turn based game and a lot of card games as well. If you just had perfect memory you'd be a formidable chess and cards player.
in a way, life is just a simple game with tricky combinatorics, and fairly trivial to attack with the tools of unsupervised learning.
Life isn't simple in the way these games are. The choices you have in life aren't clear, and neither is what will happen once you make them.