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UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords

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Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords

#11

Post by jchrisa »

marssaxman wrote: post #6
x0x0 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a lawyer, but I very strongly doubt deliberately making yourself unavailable to give the password on demand is going to be perceived by a court as as cute a way around this law as you believe it to be. There's no technological solutions to things like this, only political ones.

There are no political solutions to things like this either - not that any of us talking about it here have any meaningful hope of accomplishing, anyway. We might as well try whatever technical fixes we can come up with, since it's better than the nothing we'll get if we wait for the politicians to deal with it.

Don't travel with electronics?

Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords

#12

Post by obstinate »

kingbirdy wrote: post #9
grouseway wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tech solution might be giving partial keys to someone in another legal jurisdiction. e.g. I send a partial key to my cousin and grandmother which live in another country. When crossing borders I then logout and cannot log back in without their part of the key. A local judge will not be able to compel someone in another country to cooperate - and my grandmother's local judge will not be able to compel her since th…

That only works if you have a grandma in a non-extraditing country

And if you don't mind being held indefinitely for contempt of court.

Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords

#13

Post by TeMPOraL »

jchrisa wrote: post #11
marssaxman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no political solutions to things like this either - not that any of us talking about it here have any meaningful hope of accomplishing, anyway. We might as well try whatever technical fixes we can come up with, since it's better than the nothing we'll get if we wait for the politicians to deal with it.

Don't travel with electronics?

Here's a business/service idea off the top of my head.

As a traveller, just before going through security you wipe your device and "sell" it to a vendor in exchange for a voucher that will allow you to exchange it back when you land and go through the security at your destination. You take the new device, provision it with your cloud data, and go on your visit; when you go back, you go through this process again, in the other direction.

Lots of problems to be solved with that idea, not the least of which is the business model, but it would allow you to travel without any electronics on your person.

Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords

#14

Post by adamsea »

marssaxman wrote: post #6
x0x0 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a lawyer, but I very strongly doubt deliberately making yourself unavailable to give the password on demand is going to be perceived by a court as as cute a way around this law as you believe it to be. There's no technological solutions to things like this, only political ones.

There are no political solutions to things like this either - not that any of us talking about it here have any meaningful hope of accomplishing, anyway. We might as well try whatever technical fixes we can come up with, since it's better than the nothing we'll get if we wait for the politicians to deal with it.

Let's not be defeatist. Just because something is difficult and may take a long time does not make it impossible.

Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords

#15

Post by daxorid »

obstinate wrote: post #12
kingbirdy wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only works if you have a grandma in a non-extraditing country

And if you don't mind being held indefinitely for contempt of court.

That's more or less the point of the GGP's suggestion. Contempt is generally brought in cases where you have the ability to comply, but choose not to.

If you do not have even the ability to comply, justifying contempt becomes increasingly difficult.

Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords

#16

Post by benchaney »

x0x0 wrote: post #4
vjvj wrote: post #2

Follow up from previous HN submitted article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14340137 Surprised more app developers are not creating solutions to this kind of thing - e.g. some form of multisig authorisation to access certain files or 2FA that relies on the second factor only being available at times access is genuinely needed.

I'm not a lawyer, but I very strongly doubt deliberately making yourself unavailable to give the password on demand is going to be perceived by a court as as cute a way around this law as you believe it to be. There's no technological solutions to things like this, only political ones.

This is a terrible attitude to have. Basically what your suggesting is that the government should be all powerful and then dole out rights to people as it sees fit. This is a completely unacceptable way for a free society to function.

Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords

#17

Post by obstinate »

daxorid wrote: post #15
obstinate wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you don't mind being held indefinitely for contempt of court.

That's more or less the point of the GGP's suggestion. Contempt is generally brought in cases where you have the ability to comply, but choose not to. If you do not have even the ability to comply, justifying contempt becomes increasingly difficult.

If your mom overseas has the password, you do have the ability to comply. Ask you mom for the password. She gives it to you. You comply.

Here's another example that might make this more clear. Let's say I embezzle a million dollars from my employer, and they sue me to get it back. (Let's just pretend that I avoid criminal charges for simplicity.) When they win and I tell them, "I can't comply, I gave it to my cousin in France to hold on to," what do you think the judge does? I'll tell you what the judge does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Beatty_Chadwick (This only applies to the U.S.. I suppose in the U.K. you would do two years and then be released.)

Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords

#18

Post by vasco »

x0x0 wrote: post #4
vjvj wrote: post #2

Follow up from previous HN submitted article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14340137 Surprised more app developers are not creating solutions to this kind of thing - e.g. some form of multisig authorisation to access certain files or 2FA that relies on the second factor only being available at times access is genuinely needed.

I'm not a lawyer, but I very strongly doubt deliberately making yourself unavailable to give the password on demand is going to be perceived by a court as as cute a way around this law as you believe it to be. There's no technological solutions to things like this, only political ones.

Two passwords, one wipes the device the other unlocks.

Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords

#19

Post by alistairSH »

vasco wrote: post #18
x0x0 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a lawyer, but I very strongly doubt deliberately making yourself unavailable to give the password on demand is going to be perceived by a court as as cute a way around this law as you believe it to be. There's no technological solutions to things like this, only political ones.

Two passwords, one wipes the device the other unlocks.

Which will lead to an Obstruction of Justice charge or similar.

Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords

#20

Post by IanCal »

vasco wrote: post #18
x0x0 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a lawyer, but I very strongly doubt deliberately making yourself unavailable to give the password on demand is going to be perceived by a court as as cute a way around this law as you believe it to be. There's no technological solutions to things like this, only political ones.

Two passwords, one wipes the device the other unlocks.

This is likely to be even more illegal.
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