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The Dark Side of Doctoring

ericlevi.com

11–20 of 241 posts

Re: The Dark Side of Doctoring

#11

The FAA enforces work limitations on pilots, but we schedule our health care workers like this? How are there not even civil cases against errors caused by this kind of administrative foolishness? Overworking doctors like this is insane.

ER doctors work on a shift schedule, which has many documented advantages and disadvantages. Health issues are among the disadvantages. In my opinion, they can be pretty serious.

Many medical specialities have concerns with depression and suicide. ER and ICU are among the two with which I have personal experience that face these issues quite acutely. If you have a loved one in one of those departments, the last thing you want to hear is that your physician may be dealing with depression and suicidal thoughts.

Personally, I don't think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. I suspect removing the shift schedule nature of emergency medicine may have a remarkable improvement. Many ER nurses and clinics have already moved away from a rotating shift schedule, and I haven't heard of any serious repercussions. I really hope emergency physicians follow suit someday. Or, find an alternative model that doesn't incur such health issues.

Re: The Dark Side of Doctoring

#12

Why continue in a job that sucks that hard? Is it the money? The prestige? Family expectations? It seems like a terrible way to live.

I'd imagine it's highly rewarding delivering results for patients. I have heard from doctors in my family that the administrative overhead that's been put in place has made it way less appealing than it used to be.

Re: The Dark Side of Doctoring

#13

The FAA enforces work limitations on pilots, but we schedule our health care workers like this? How are there not even civil cases against errors caused by this kind of administrative foolishness? Overworking doctors like this is insane.

There is a tradeoff that is used to justify the long hours. On the one hand, having a well rested doctor is obviously good for them to be making good decisions. But on the other hand, patient handoffs are dangerous. The more times you change the person responsible for a patient, the longer the game of telephone you are playing with their care. This has been measured as being bad for patient outcomes.

Now, that doesn't seem to justify the fact that long hour shifts are placed so close together. It seems like you could give doctors a longer break in between shifts than they have. Residents have the worst of it. The attending actually do get a fair amount of time on/off. Residents already work a lot less than they did 50 years ago, some think that their training should be extended to cover the loss of density.

Re: The Dark Side of Doctoring

#14
After working in healthcare IT, I can atleast attest to the general UI clunkiness and terrible software quality that is prevalent in the industry.

Innovation in Health IT happens usually because CMS (Agency that administers Medicare, Medicaid etc) looks at the landscape and comes up with a carrot / stick rewards system to force Hospitals and practices to update their software. They generally do things like:

* Hey you need to store records electronically. If you do this by X, you will get Y$. If not, you will be penalized Z$ every year after X.

* Hey the system you built - It needs to actually be able to talk to other systems. If you do this by X.. you get the point.

* The data you're collecting in your system is stupid. We need X, Y and Z reports to ensure you're actually using the system as we meant for you to use the system. Do this by X.

Several other misc things I noticed:

The industry by itself is extremely complex with business requirements that vary between hospitals, practices, labs and so on. This makes connecting systems together a nightmare. Even when you manage to integrate systems, each hospital and practice has a set of business practices (forms they collect, the way they organize information etc) that make rolling software out very hard. Configurability is king. Making everything configurable and having configuration engineers set things up makes automated testing very hard at a UI level. This leads to some sharp corners and contributes to bugs and general UX clunkiness.

UX design isn't generally valued and suits / "business requirements" / timelines are prioritised over usable, stable, secure software. This is a typical UI: http://uxpajournal.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/smelcer3.g...

Standards are out of date and the only thing pushing innovation here is CMS doing its best. The problem with this is that they're a govt agency, so they're generally slow and they're an insurance company, so their primary motivation is to cut cost of care.

Doctors are generally smart, and you can sometimes get good feedback from them, but they're already overworked and can't really vocalize what they find frustrating about software.

I hate to generalize, but in my experience atleast, all other people (middle management, front-desk staff) are useless. By that I mean they just don't understand how software works.

There are some smart CIOs, but they care about their position and the hospital bottom-line, so trying to sell them something that doesn't exactly line up with the CMS carrot / stick model is basically impossible.

Re: The Dark Side of Doctoring

#15
post #6

It's worth noting that the incredible success of Epic EMR software is because it tightly controls all of the administrative billing issues, NOT because it makes clinician's lives easier. There are endless check boxes in Epic and each site has its own interface. It's a huge mess and difficult to navigate...but arguably still better than the other vendors.

... sounds like the medical equivalent of Jira ...

Re: The Dark Side of Doctoring

#16
post #13

The FAA enforces work limitations on pilots, but we schedule our health care workers like this? How are there not even civil cases against errors caused by this kind of administrative foolishness? Overworking doctors like this is insane.

There is a tradeoff that is used to justify the long hours. On the one hand, having a well rested doctor is obviously good for them to be making good decisions. But on the other hand, patient handoffs are dangerous. The more times you change the person responsible for a patient, the longer the game of telephone you are playing with their care. This has been measured as being bad for patient outcomes. Now, that doesn'…

Maybe OT, but pilots have a lot of time off between shifts and it's starting to come to light that their depression rates are much higher than anyone is comfortable admitting. This may from a different source though, since flying is very much about precise repetition and less about complex decision making (ADM is hard, but not the same level of mental stress that doctors endure), you eventually realize that you're a very highly trained bus driver.

Re: The Dark Side of Doctoring

#17
post #6

It's worth noting that the incredible success of Epic EMR software is because it tightly controls all of the administrative billing issues, NOT because it makes clinician's lives easier. There are endless check boxes in Epic and each site has its own interface. It's a huge mess and difficult to navigate...but arguably still better than the other vendors.

Absolutely it's about the administrative end and not patient care. We've got a situation in our regional health authority (Vancouver Island, BC, Canada) where they're trying to roll out a significant update/expansion to their EMR (Cerner-based) in the hospital in Nanaimo. Despite immense pressure, some docs have been now suspended for refusing to use it and switching back to paper, despite the massive increase in time it takes to provide the same patient care, and also because of notable examples where the EMR has endangered patient safety. (Google 'ihealth nanaimo' if you're curious for details, then rinse and repeat for the same story in so many other places)

Re: The Dark Side of Doctoring

#18
My wife is a medical resident and the issues described by this doctor are absolutely pervasive in residency.

The strange part is, the overwork also seems to be pervasive among the attending physicians who have been out of residency for decades. Not just the residents.

As a tech founder analyzing the system from the outside, I think this writer has nailed the core issue: "... a doctor is just one of the many commodities in this complex industry. It’s no longer about the patient. It’s about the business of hospitals."

If doctors were viewed in their industry the way software engineers are viewed in ours -- as specialized skilled labor with extreme leverage and limited time -- then we would have well-supported, well-rested, and well-compensated doctors.

But as it stands, we have overworked and overtired doctors buried under a mountain of clerical work, who need to slot their patient in to 15-minute "encounters" in clinic to keep the profit machine running. Meanwhile, administrators, health insurance executives, and medical equipment CEOs work 9-to-5 and earn millions. It really boggles the mind and infuriates me, as a technologist.

p.s. Don't listen to any of the comment threads here that say long hours are required to reduce patient handoffs. Yes, it's true, patient handoffs cause some danger. But tired doctors make mistakes. Period. And, as this post indicates, a perpetually tired doctor burns out and either quits the profession or (worse) commits suicide, which is the worst possible outcome for the system.

Re: The Dark Side of Doctoring

#19

Why continue in a job that sucks that hard? Is it the money? The prestige? Family expectations? It seems like a terrible way to live.

For me:

* Golden handcuffs

* Sunk cost

* Rewarding mastery

* Deep specialized knowledge with no other remuneration prospects for that knowledge.

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