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Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an overrated ideology

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11–20 of 176 posts

Re: Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an overrated ideology

#11

You might say I've observed this many times in my career. I think the best move career-wise is to be one of the people who makes the new thing. Those who clean up after them, bear the brunt of their design flaws and careless mistakes, will never be recognized, appreciated, or remunerated as well. At least in my experience. Ask yourself this: who is the most famous maintainer you can think of? (Not someone who devised…

The most famous maintainer(s) I can think of are the people who paint the Golden Gate Bridge.

Re: Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an overrated ideology

#12

Related video by Jordan Peterson, on how liberals and conservatives need one another because liberals (high trait openness) innovate, but conservatives (high trait conscientiousness) maintain things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ho5VZp_ps4

Interesting topic, lots of sweeping generalizations being thrown around. Personally, I've found my politics have not changed substantially as I've aged. As a 20 year old, I was liberal, and in my mid-30s with a mortgage and a family, I'm still quite liberal. However, I've found my professional proclivities have changed. I value maintenance and conscientiousness much more than I once did. I think that's due to a few r…

Maintenance and green-field development are different skillsets. Green-field development requires that you can envision what doesn't exist and hold it in your head long enough, and precisely enough, to build it. Maintenance requires that you take what already exists and improve it. Green-field development tends to be more intuitive, and it requires the ability to balance many trade-offs and consider many possible solutions in your head. Maintenance programming requires less creativity and to some degree less short-term memory, but more attention to detail, more logical thinking, more communication skills, and more ability to read & make sense of existing code.

I've worked in both situations, but I'm better at one than the other. It's very rare to find someone who is excellent at both. You do get the benefit of accumulated domain knowledge when you keep the initial developers on to maintain the system, but oftentimes they don't have the temperament or personality to be happy and successful in that role.

Re: Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an overrated ideology

#13

You might say I've observed this many times in my career. I think the best move career-wise is to be one of the people who makes the new thing. Those who clean up after them, bear the brunt of their design flaws and careless mistakes, will never be recognized, appreciated, or remunerated as well. At least in my experience. Ask yourself this: who is the most famous maintainer you can think of? (Not someone who devised…

Not saying you are wrong, but who is the most famous inventor you can think of? No no, from a startup, similar to the scenario depicted. That's right, none (+- a handful) - regardless, we aren't doing this for fame anyway (I'd imagine).

Re: Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an overrated ideology

#14

Related video by Jordan Peterson, on how liberals and conservatives need one another because liberals (high trait openness) innovate, but conservatives (high trait conscientiousness) maintain things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ho5VZp_ps4

So who are all those people going on about the inherent awfulness of government and how it should be replaced by private businesses?

Re: Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an overrated ideology

#15

You might say I've observed this many times in my career. I think the best move career-wise is to be one of the people who makes the new thing. Those who clean up after them, bear the brunt of their design flaws and careless mistakes, will never be recognized, appreciated, or remunerated as well. At least in my experience. Ask yourself this: who is the most famous maintainer you can think of? (Not someone who devised…

It's a risk/reward trade-off. You're never going to be famous being the maintainer, but you'll also never be viewed as crazy, nor do you have to face outright failure. You hear about the innovators who succeed; you kinda shake your heads and pity the ones who don't.

Re: Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an overrated ideology

#16

Related video by Jordan Peterson, on how liberals and conservatives need one another because liberals (high trait openness) innovate, but conservatives (high trait conscientiousness) maintain things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ho5VZp_ps4

So-called "Conservatives" have been much more "egg-breakers" for the past 30 years - they've gotten more done, and most of that results in a mess (two examples - Reagan: outspent Russia, ballooned national debt/deficit, Bush2: started 2nd Iraq war - we're still paying for it)

If you remove politics from your point, I'll rephrase as "we need both maintainers and innovators" but that doesn't get the page-hits, does it?

Re: Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an overrated ideology

#17
post #14

Related video by Jordan Peterson, on how liberals and conservatives need one another because liberals (high trait openness) innovate, but conservatives (high trait conscientiousness) maintain things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ho5VZp_ps4

So who are all those people going on about the inherent awfulness of government and how it should be replaced by private businesses?

Conservatives, of course!

Oh wait, now we've blown up the whole premise of innovation vs maintenance as regards left vs right. Hmmmmmm.

Re: Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an overrated ideology

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be very curious to know why this is getting downvoted, and if it has anything to do with the fact that YCombinator is a hub for the 'innovators' the post (and this comment) are talking about. Don't downvote because someone hurts your feelings - that's not what this site is for, guys.

Aw, it's just fake internet points. I don't worry about it too much

It's also an issue of visibility. Downvoted comments are seen less and don't get to contribute to the zeitgeist. That's sort of by design and I'm not trying to have that conversation, just saying that it's more than "aw, just internet points".

Re: Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an overrated ideology

#19
post #2

"If the President had picked me to predict which country [in postwar Europe] would recover first, I would say, 'Bring me the records of maintenance.' The nation with the best maintenance will recover first. Maintenance is something very, very specifically Western. They haven't got it in Russia. If I got in there in the warehouse, let's say, and I saw that the broom had a special nail, I would say, 'This is the nail o…

Er, can you explain that last sentence?

Re: Maintainers make the world go round: Innovation is an overrated ideology

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting topic, lots of sweeping generalizations being thrown around. Personally, I've found my politics have not changed substantially as I've aged. As a 20 year old, I was liberal, and in my mid-30s with a mortgage and a family, I'm still quite liberal. However, I've found my professional proclivities have changed. I value maintenance and conscientiousness much more than I once did. I think that's due to a few r…

Maintenance and green-field development are different skillsets. Green-field development requires that you can envision what doesn't exist and hold it in your head long enough, and precisely enough, to build it. Maintenance requires that you take what already exists and improve it. Green-field development tends to be more intuitive, and it requires the ability to balance many trade-offs and consider many possible sol…

So, I think I agree with you, in general, that people can be better suited to green-field or maintenance, both from a skillset and personality perspective. But I also think good, active maintenance can have a lot of creativity and require, as you say, envisioning what doesn't exist.

If we're just talking about bug fixes and level-2 support or something, sure, that's mostly about attention to detail, etc. However, maintenance is much more than that, in my experience.

Maintenance involves keeping a system up to date and functioning in the face of changing business requirements. So, you have a new customer come onto the system or a department wants to change a business process, and now you need to change the system. What was once a single implementation of some feature now makes more sense as an abstraction with extensibility points. Or maybe just the system has more data than anticipated, and a good developer might realize that instead of putting a bandaid on the Postgres search, it's better to integrate a dedicated search solution like Elastic.

The point is that software is never done, as long as it's being used. Drawing a line between development and maintenance is often just an arbitrary distinction.

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