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Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

theatlantic.com

11–20 of 39 posts

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#11
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen some people and some attitudes out there that believe it really is. Some of the same people have no problem biting the hand that feeds them, it seems. Or rather, biting the hand that they're asking "please sir, can I have some more" of.

So do you expect people who don't believe the system they're living with is not the best system to opt out and not make a living?

Well no, not exactly. It's just I've come across arguments (really memes) about "late stage capitalism" that are fueled with snark but really nothing substantive to convince me of what their individual argument is against 'late stage capitalism' (like the completely valid argument you've just made) and it's left me with a bit of fatigue on the face of it being preached at regarding the topic.

I'll own that this isn't a perfect position to be in and I'm not portending it is.

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#13
post #3
post #2

I thought the phrase was "late stage capitalism" – implying that capitalism is a disease like cancer.

I've seen some people and some attitudes out there that believe it really is. Some of the same people have no problem biting the hand that feeds them, it seems. Or rather, biting the hand that they're asking "please sir, can I have some more" of.

Right, so you're advising the "if you don't like it get out" method... which is completely useless.

Whether or not someone likes capitalism, it's our current system and you have to make a living or some asshole is going to tell you that you can't get healthcare.

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#14

>"Mandel did warn about the forces of automation, globalization, and wage stagnation, and feared that they would tear at the social fabric by making workers miserable." Funny. Most people are living better lives today in the era of High Capitalism than they ever have in the past. As technology growth - spurred by the incentives capitalism generates - continues, and new products and services are created by the capital…

Capitalism is taking some there. Not all. Most. The averages look good. When you look outside a standard deviation or two there is intergenerational suffering with no end.

So, you're right. As long as you can plug your nose and ignore the people at the very bottom, everything is pretty good!

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#15
post #3
post #2

I thought the phrase was "late stage capitalism" – implying that capitalism is a disease like cancer.

I've seen some people and some attitudes out there that believe it really is. Some of the same people have no problem biting the hand that feeds them, it seems. Or rather, biting the hand that they're asking "please sir, can I have some more" of.

I think the fundamental reason people latch onto it as "Late Stage" is because they see the future of this way of building a society as very grim. And I am inclined to agree with them.

Capitalism is one thing, but fundamentalist capitalism, which is preached in the US (not followed, mind you, we have lots of monopolies and very closed markets), is something of a horror show of awful virtues. The trick is, capitalism in the US has ALWAYS been a horror show. This country was literally founded on the ideals of slavery and not paying taxes. England wasn't cool with slavery when we founded this nation, but we sure were. If this country wasn't founded on slavery, then the 3/5ths compromise would never have taken place, and we'd have ended the practice at inception.

It is a good thing that we now no longer have an actual price tag on the heads of human beings in this country, but is it really so difficult to see such a thing coming about again, with corporations as the "owners," and individuals as the investment properties? Apple was colluding to keep employee pay down, a few years back, showing this type of behavior already fomenting again.

"Late Stage Capitalism" refers, really, to early stage capitalism as it existed in the US: that view that money is more important than human life. That the only reasonable pursuit of humans is money. It beacons to the hollowness of the American life, where your job defines you more than any other single attribute.

Yes, there is no real alternative in our modern world. The term "Late Stage Capitalism," however, insinuates that there is a solution out there, and we'll be moving on to it sometime in the next couple of decades. What will that be? I personally feel as though we'll splinter into border less societies with their own crypto currencies, populated by people who live in the real world societies as ghosts, without tax-paying jobs or rent paying housing. Some sort of reputation-based world like a Doctorow novel, but with the real government still in place, but being ignored and circumvented by people in a million ways.

Think of this like a game of Civilization. You start as a dictatorship, but you can research better forms of government. Civ always stopped at Democracy, like that was the be all and end all. But that's just because humanity hasn't yet discovered the next good way of organizing large groups for mutual protections. We will, some day.

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#16
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen some people and some attitudes out there that believe it really is. Some of the same people have no problem biting the hand that feeds them, it seems. Or rather, biting the hand that they're asking "please sir, can I have some more" of.

Right, so you're advising the "if you don't like it get out" method... which is completely useless. Whether or not someone likes capitalism, it's our current system and you have to make a living or some asshole is going to tell you that you can't get healthcare.

>so you're advising

Not at all. My reply here sums up my immediate reaction to memes critiquing 'late stage capitalism' https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14276295

It's a topic worthy of critique but the circles I inhabit seem to be filled with individuals take a position of critiques that amount to memes and hollow arguments that seem more focused on poking fun at the participants than criticizing the system-leaving me with an uncomfortable level of fatigue.

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#17
post #3
post #2

I thought the phrase was "late stage capitalism" – implying that capitalism is a disease like cancer.

I've seen some people and some attitudes out there that believe it really is. Some of the same people have no problem biting the hand that feeds them, it seems. Or rather, biting the hand that they're asking "please sir, can I have some more" of.

Perhaps they feel that the hand that's feeding them is feeding them feces instead of the promised food.

Or perhaps they feel that the hand that's feeding them while siphoning off their wallet is not actually doing them much good.

Capitalism isn't bad in and of itself, but neither is it good. When combined with proper regulation, it can lead to a lot of growth, while raising the tide for everyone. But when deregulated, or subverted with poor (or hostile) regulation, it results in... well... what we have today. Very few rich people building their fortunes on the backs of everyone else.

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#18

>"Mandel did warn about the forces of automation, globalization, and wage stagnation, and feared that they would tear at the social fabric by making workers miserable." Funny. Most people are living better lives today in the era of High Capitalism than they ever have in the past. As technology growth - spurred by the incentives capitalism generates - continues, and new products and services are created by the capital…

Would we still be capitalists if we had universal basic income?

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#19
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen some people and some attitudes out there that believe it really is. Some of the same people have no problem biting the hand that feeds them, it seems. Or rather, biting the hand that they're asking "please sir, can I have some more" of.

Right, so you're advising the "if you don't like it get out" method... which is completely useless. Whether or not someone likes capitalism, it's our current system and you have to make a living or some asshole is going to tell you that you can't get healthcare.

Criticizing something for lacking substance with an alternative viewpoint... lacking substance.

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#20

>"Mandel did warn about the forces of automation, globalization, and wage stagnation, and feared that they would tear at the social fabric by making workers miserable." Funny. Most people are living better lives today in the era of High Capitalism than they ever have in the past. As technology growth - spurred by the incentives capitalism generates - continues, and new products and services are created by the capital…

Capitalism is taking some there. Not all. Most. The averages look good. When you look outside a standard deviation or two there is intergenerational suffering with no end. So, you're right. As long as you can plug your nose and ignore the people at the very bottom, everything is pretty good!

Under capitalism the people at the very bottom have it much better than they ever have had it, just like the rest of the population. And things continue to improve.

In fact it's plausible that as automation picks up it's the people at the bottom who will stand to gain the most.

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