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Ask HN: What is your company's policy regarding side-projects?

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Re: Ask HN: What is your company's policy regarding side-projects?

#11

Post by CM30 »

The last two companies I worked for were pretty clear about it:

Everything you work on outside of work is your own property, and we have no real interest in it. Even on work computers, as long as it's not part of a client project, then it's your property.

Honestly, I'm kind of surprised how many companies seemingly don't work like this. I mean, maybe I'm really lucky in that sense, but I never worked for or even interviewed at a company that cared what their employees were doing in their free time.

Re: Ask HN: What is your company's policy regarding side-projects?

#12

Post by rishabhd »

Varies from organization to organization.

The current place I work has a policy that they own stuff which I create on my business machine and I am free to pursue interests which do not cause a potential conflict of interest or competition.

In my previous organization, it was a simple "we own your ass, home or otherwise and don't you dare engage in a side project without informing us" .

Re: Ask HN: What is your company's policy regarding side-projects?

#13

Post by alberth »

A must read in this topic. Give perspective on why companies want to own your side projects.

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr...

TL;DR - companies don't want you to sue them in the future where you claim copyright on their product.

Re: Ask HN: What is your company's policy regarding side-projects?

#14

Post by bsharitt »

corobo wrote: post #6

Previous company was essentially "We own everything you create whether during work or not" I think my contract was worded in a way that meant technically speaking any ideas I had while under their employment belong to them too. I'm not sure how they'd have enforced it, but was unwilling to challenge it. Major part of my reasoning to leave. I left with a fair bit of leverage due to an unrelated matter so managed to se…

I had a job offer from a company with that kind of "Everything you create is ours" clause in the contract(along with a pretty broad non-compete). I think a bit part of it was a that it was a remote work position. When I pushed back about it, the guy trying to hire me basically told me "don't worry about it, I've seen it enforced", and I'm not even sure how legally sound the clauses were, but I ended up not taking the job over it.

Re: Ask HN: What is your company's policy regarding side-projects?

#15

Post by Swinx43 »

rosbrith wrote: post #7
Swinx43 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is fantastic to hear! I am also in the UK and every single contract I have signed was accompanied with clauses basically stating that the company owns anything I create while I am employed by them. This includes anything outside of work as well. I believe this is the standard terms for UK contracts. I was lucky in getting my current employer to add an addendum to my contract giving me certain exclusions to this…

Mine (also UK) is similar to what you describe, minus your addendum. It makes reference to agreeing that inventions (new software, I imagine) developed during the course of my employment must be made available to the company for its use. I've never known the company to call anyone out on this.

Yes that is true, I have never known anyone that was called out on this. However I am sure if an invention becomes popular and really valuable that some organisations, espcially big ones, would not hesitate to give it a try.

Re: Ask HN: What is your company's policy regarding side-projects?

#16

Post by corobo »

bsharitt wrote: post #14
corobo wrote: post #6

Previous company was essentially "We own everything you create whether during work or not" I think my contract was worded in a way that meant technically speaking any ideas I had while under their employment belong to them too. I'm not sure how they'd have enforced it, but was unwilling to challenge it. Major part of my reasoning to leave. I left with a fair bit of leverage due to an unrelated matter so managed to se…

I had a job offer from a company with that kind of "Everything you create is ours" clause in the contract(along with a pretty broad non-compete). I think a bit part of it was a that it was a remote work position. When I pushed back about it, the guy trying to hire me basically told me "don't worry about it, I've seen it enforced", and I'm not even sure how legally sound the clauses were, but I ended up not taking the…

Yeah it's not something I'd ever allow in my contract either anymore. "I've never seen it enforced" just means you might be the first person to have a side project, not worth the risk if you can find a job elsewhere

Re: Ask HN: What is your company's policy regarding side-projects?

#17

Post by andy_ppp »

alberth wrote: post #13

A must read in this topic. Give perspective on why companies want to own your side projects. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr... TL;DR - companies don't want you to sue them in the future where you claim copyright on their product.

The whole of that has been totally debunked and it's also illegal in many states.

I'm a contractor and I've been asked to sign some work I did over to the company I work for; it's very very clear what "The Software" is in the contract that my client was paying for, why make it so complicated?

"Your game designer works for a year and invents 7 games. At the end of the year, she sues you, claiming that she owns 4 of them, because those particular games were invented between 5pm and 9am, when she wasn’t on duty."

You have the option to specify clearly and record what you paid the games developer for; it's on you as an employer to show this and it's a ridiculous, straw man example. If you cannot prove that the developer did this work solely for you in exchange for salary then maybe you don't deserve to own these games.

Re: Ask HN: What is your company's policy regarding side-projects?

#18

Post by nmstoker »

Swinx43 wrote: post #15
rosbrith wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine (also UK) is similar to what you describe, minus your addendum. It makes reference to agreeing that inventions (new software, I imagine) developed during the course of my employment must be made available to the company for its use. I've never known the company to call anyone out on this.

Yes that is true, I have never known anyone that was called out on this. However I am sure if an invention becomes popular and really valuable that some organisations, espcially big ones, would not hesitate to give it a try.

My UK contact has no IP terms but the employer added something into the employee handbook claiming to own everything which was a problem for me as I do a number of non-work projects outside work.

I had a discussion and got a clarification on the scope and we agreed that it covered specified things with work applicability, so I'm satisfied now (will start work on the best selling novel and string of number one hits right away!).

It was important it wasn't just based on a vague ill-defined idea of "outside work" because typically a portion of what is clearly work related IP I generate doesn't happen in a formal work situation, yet I understand it as work (and am fine with that) whilst equally there is plenty of non-work IP that is just as clearly in no way work (as it doesn't relate to our line of business).

Re: Ask HN: What is your company's policy regarding side-projects?

#20

Post by nolemurs »

corobo wrote: post #6

Previous company was essentially "We own everything you create whether during work or not" I think my contract was worded in a way that meant technically speaking any ideas I had while under their employment belong to them too. I'm not sure how they'd have enforced it, but was unwilling to challenge it. Major part of my reasoning to leave. I left with a fair bit of leverage due to an unrelated matter so managed to se…

> I'm not sure how they'd have enforced it

In a lot of cases they probably couldn't. The purpose of this sort of clause isn't that they can actually use it to claim truly unrelated work you did on your own time. The main purpose of a clause like this is to ensure that if the work is defensibly related to your job you can't make the argument that the contract left you a loophole.

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