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Scientists Aging Faster Than Other Workers

nytimes.com

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Re: Scientists Aging Faster Than Other Workers

#11

Post by sandworm101 »

arcanus wrote: post #2

It's harder than ever for young researchers to get initial grants. The pay is seriously lagging industry. In many cases, the resources at your disposal are substantially larger in industry as well. Meanwhile, universities are increasingly run by administrators. Faculty have more service requirements and less autonomy than in the past. Overhead expenses are higher than ever, as well. Furthermore! Tenured faculty are h…

>> ...universities are increasingly run by administrators. Faculty have more service requirements and less autonomy than in the past.

I teach one course at a local university. I have near-total academic autonomy but I also have six different bosses, none of which actually teach. A new term just started. I show up at the staff room to learn that I cannot get on the wifi or classroom podiums until I "accept" my latest contract, which has yet to be sent to me. I taught the first class on my laptop wired (hdmi) to the projector and tethered to my phone. Too many people being paid to creating silly rules and pointless systems.

I'm starting a new job in another city next month (government). After explaining to my students that a different prof will cover the last half of the course they couldn't care less about the subject of my lecture. They wanted to hear about how I actually "got a real job". Interview processes and resume writing are more important to them than actual knowledge.

Re: Scientists Aging Faster Than Other Workers

#12

Post by laxatives »

arcanus wrote: post #2

It's harder than ever for young researchers to get initial grants. The pay is seriously lagging industry. In many cases, the resources at your disposal are substantially larger in industry as well. Meanwhile, universities are increasingly run by administrators. Faculty have more service requirements and less autonomy than in the past. Overhead expenses are higher than ever, as well. Furthermore! Tenured faculty are h…

There's a massive brain drain to look forward to in the next couple decades, especially in the US. Pretty much none of my best peers went in to a PhD program for many of the reasons you described. One of my roommates got his PhD in optical physics and is essentially living the life of a monk. Its so much easier to cash out for a pretty basic engineering role and get a lifetime (hopefully) of easy, stable income. Many skilled jobs are leaving the US (ie CGI leaving Hollywood for Canada and elsewhere) and political instability (ie immigration) is cutting out a big chunk of the upper quartile as well.

In addition, the average individual has most of their life decisions made for them via simple, accessible tools and the lower half has a fraction of the competence of their predecessors. I'd guess maybe 5% of my friends/peers spend any time reading. Maybe 60% over my friends outside of tech are seriously struggling financially.

Almost all of my coworkers are immigrants on O-1 visas and there's really nothing here for them long term, especially if they feel unwelcome. The moment another country provides a better offer, I bet 95% of them will go there instead. Probably many that are here now will go too.

Re: Scientists Aging Faster Than Other Workers

#13

Post by sndean »

School-Cotton wrote: post #8
arcanus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't let me totally discourage you! Far from it, just be sure to have realistic expectations. I absolutely loved my PhD work and I'm happy I did it. But I'm also happy I was careful to consider how this degree might help my employment down the line. Which it did. I've got an absolutely amazing research position that is well supported in the research arm of a BigCo now. I wouldn't expect that the pay is optimal versu…

You directly contradict your sibling post, which claims coming back is nearly impossible. Do you have many examples of people who have done this?

Just one example: My PhD advisor went directly to industry after their PhD, stayed there for 10 years, and then went back to academia. Six years later they had tenure. "I got lucky" was frequently said, though.

Re: Scientists Aging Faster Than Other Workers

#14

Post by arcanus »

laxatives wrote: post #12
arcanus wrote: post #2

It's harder than ever for young researchers to get initial grants. The pay is seriously lagging industry. In many cases, the resources at your disposal are substantially larger in industry as well. Meanwhile, universities are increasingly run by administrators. Faculty have more service requirements and less autonomy than in the past. Overhead expenses are higher than ever, as well. Furthermore! Tenured faculty are h…

There's a massive brain drain to look forward to in the next couple decades, especially in the US. Pretty much none of my best peers went in to a PhD program for many of the reasons you described. One of my roommates got his PhD in optical physics and is essentially living the life of a monk. Its so much easier to cash out for a pretty basic engineering role and get a lifetime (hopefully) of easy, stable income. Many…

Couldn't agree more.

On the other hand, the research salaries some of my friends are pulling in at the big companies are substantial. And everyone on this site knows what some of the premier software devs are pulling in. Similar dictomy in law, and I suspect many other fields.

This is why I'm currently obsessed with cyberpunk. There is a massive bifurcation happening in society right now. Haves and have-nots. Some who are reaping massive gains, and many who are barely getting by.

Re: Scientists Aging Faster Than Other Workers

#15

Post by ryandrake »

sandworm101 wrote: post #11
arcanus wrote: post #2

It's harder than ever for young researchers to get initial grants. The pay is seriously lagging industry. In many cases, the resources at your disposal are substantially larger in industry as well. Meanwhile, universities are increasingly run by administrators. Faculty have more service requirements and less autonomy than in the past. Overhead expenses are higher than ever, as well. Furthermore! Tenured faculty are h…

>> ...universities are increasingly run by administrators. Faculty have more service requirements and less autonomy than in the past. I teach one course at a local university. I have near-total academic autonomy but I also have six different bosses, none of which actually teach. A new term just started. I show up at the staff room to learn that I cannot get on the wifi or classroom podiums until I "accept" my latest…

> Interview processes and resume writing are more important to them than actual knowledge.

This should be unsurprising. For many, many jobs, the actual knowledge requirements are dwarfed by the importance placed on interview skills and a polished resume.

Re: Scientists Aging Faster Than Other Workers

#18

Post by gumby »

What an unfortunately brief article. The reason seems clear to me[+]: there are plenty of science students but not enough entry level "professional" jobs. Hence the long post docs, the multiple post docs, until the poor candidate gives up. Either we need more research labs and universities or we need to age scientists out. I would prefer the former, but who knows?

+ (but like many beliefs, a study is needed)

Re: Scientists Aging Faster Than Other Workers

#19

Post by dwaltrip »

We need to experiment with different ways of organizing our scientific endeavors.

Between postdocs forced to spin their wheels in the mud (or quit) for untold years, the replication crisis, generally misaligned incentives between doing the best work possible vs. advancing one's career, and of course, funding difficulties, I think it's clear that we aren't anywhere close to making the most of our opportunities to advance human knowledge and understanding.

I'm not saying that we haven't acheived mind blowing things in the past few centuries, or even that we won't continue to do the same in the coming decades. I simply mean we shouldn't avoid the hard, grueling work needed to make progress on some of the obvious problems.

We also shouldn't be afraid to be honest about the failings of current approaches and processes. Although, I suppose in some political climates that may be a little trickier​, given the apparent propensity for damaging misinterpretations.

Re: Scientists Aging Faster Than Other Workers

#20

Post by tnecniv »

laxatives wrote: post #12
arcanus wrote: post #2

It's harder than ever for young researchers to get initial grants. The pay is seriously lagging industry. In many cases, the resources at your disposal are substantially larger in industry as well. Meanwhile, universities are increasingly run by administrators. Faculty have more service requirements and less autonomy than in the past. Overhead expenses are higher than ever, as well. Furthermore! Tenured faculty are h…

There's a massive brain drain to look forward to in the next couple decades, especially in the US. Pretty much none of my best peers went in to a PhD program for many of the reasons you described. One of my roommates got his PhD in optical physics and is essentially living the life of a monk. Its so much easier to cash out for a pretty basic engineering role and get a lifetime (hopefully) of easy, stable income. Many…

Why is CGI heading to Canada?

I know its common for TV to film up there for tax / government arts funding reasons. Is it a similar situation or something else?

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