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Cello – A library that brings higher level programming to C

libcello.org

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Re: Cello – A library that brings higher level programming to C

#11

Post by EnFinlay »

YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 wrote: post #7
frostirosti wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C++ isn't strictly a superset of C! Which I always found crazy. Some C will not compile for C++.

Why did you find that crazy? They are 2 fully separate languages that have both evolved after the latter (C++) was first introduced.

For people who aren't professionally familiar with C or C++ it's an easy mistake to make considering how often things refer to "C/C++" like they are a single skill.

Example: https://sjobs.brassring.com/TGWebHost/jobdetails.aspx?jobId=...

Re: Cello – A library that brings higher level programming to C

#12

Post by geofft »

lacampbell wrote: post #9
frostirosti wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just write another language, that compiles to machine code, but doesn't totally enforce type safety. Call it Iron.

And make sure Iron has a small group of annoying, hardcore fans who relentlessly disrupts any thread about C or indeed programming in general with their ham fisted advocacy.

That seems annoying. It's probably a lot better to have a large group of hardcore fans of C who relentlessly disrupt all of programming in general with vulnerability-riddled code. Make sure they're writing code instead of disrupting any discussion threads, that will make sure they're not annoying.

Re: Cello – A library that brings higher level programming to C

#13

Post by jacquesm »

lacampbell wrote: post #9
frostirosti wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just write another language, that compiles to machine code, but doesn't totally enforce type safety. Call it Iron.

And make sure Iron has a small group of annoying, hardcore fans who relentlessly disrupts any thread about C or indeed programming in general with their ham fisted advocacy.

I wonder if the Iron fans realize that they are doing more harm than good the way they go about this. It reminds me of the perl zealot days.

Re: Cello – A library that brings higher level programming to C

#14

Post by IshKebab »

lacampbell wrote: post #10
ndesaulniers wrote: post #3

Why not just use C++?

slow compile times, complex language, sanity

Compile times aren't that slow, and the language is barely less complex than this insane hack. In fact C++'s complexity allows libraries to make their use a lot simpler. Consider string concatenation in C++ and C. Which is really simpler?

The main reason I can think not to use C++ is that C has a simple stable ABI so you can easily use C libraries from many languages and compilers. But you can always wrap C++ libraries in a C API so that's not a huge concern. Just a pain.

Re: Cello – A library that brings higher level programming to C

#15

Post by jacquesm »

geofft wrote: post #12
lacampbell wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And make sure Iron has a small group of annoying, hardcore fans who relentlessly disrupts any thread about C or indeed programming in general with their ham fisted advocacy.

That seems annoying. It's probably a lot better to have a large group of hardcore fans of C who relentlessly disrupt all of programming in general with vulnerability-riddled code. Make sure they're writing code instead of disrupting any discussion threads, that will make sure they're not annoying.

C has sharp edges, and buffer overflows are bad, we can all agree on that. Still, there are good ways to advocate a language and there are bad ways. Iron fans are in-your-face to the point that it crossed a line for me in a way that no other language supporters have and I haven't coded in C for a long time now so I don't feel like I have dog in the race.

Re: Cello – A library that brings higher level programming to C

#16

Post by jacquesm »

EnFinlay wrote: post #11
YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you find that crazy? They are 2 fully separate languages that have both evolved after the latter (C++) was first introduced.

For people who aren't professionally familiar with C or C++ it's an easy mistake to make considering how often things refer to "C/C++" like they are a single skill. Example: https://sjobs.brassring.com/TGWebHost/jobdetails.aspx?jobId=...

Once upon a time there was this thing called 'cfront'. Cfront took C++ and turned it into C which you then fed through your compiler.

At that time mixing C and C++ was trivial, especially because C++ was still quite simple and the C compiler was the target.

But after that things got more complicated. C evolved, several times in fact since that time and the C++ standard evolved as well. Leading to the impression that C and C++ are merely the old and the improved version of C but it is probably much better to think of them as two distinct species that share a common ancestor, where one of the two had some very radical mutations.

Re: Cello – A library that brings higher level programming to C

#17

Post by elastic_church »

EnFinlay wrote: post #11
YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you find that crazy? They are 2 fully separate languages that have both evolved after the latter (C++) was first introduced.

For people who aren't professionally familiar with C or C++ it's an easy mistake to make considering how often things refer to "C/C++" like they are a single skill. Example: https://sjobs.brassring.com/TGWebHost/jobdetails.aspx?jobId=...

"5 years of Java/Javascript, with emphasis on PHP"

Contact Pro IT Recruiting where we know our candidates, Referral bonuses too!

Re: Cello – A library that brings higher level programming to C

#18

Post by feelix »

ndesaulniers wrote: post #3

Why not just use C++?

That's like saying "Why not just use lisp?" to a python programmer. They're entirely separate languages (albeit it they do share some commonalities, but not as many as you might think).

C is my main language and I dabble in C++. I really dislike C++. I love C. I welcome any efforts to add a bit of higher level functionality to C. I have no desire (ever) to switch to C++.

Re: Cello – A library that brings higher level programming to C

#19

Post by loeg »

feelix wrote: post #18
ndesaulniers wrote: post #3

Why not just use C++?

That's like saying "Why not just use lisp?" to a python programmer. They're entirely separate languages (albeit it they do share some commonalities, but not as many as you might think). C is my main language and I dabble in C++. I really dislike C++. I love C. I welcome any efforts to add a bit of higher level functionality to C. I have no desire (ever) to switch to C++.

C programmer here. Cello isn't really C. So as long as you're using something that isn't quite C, and you want an object model, I think "why not C++?" is a reasonable question.

Re: Cello – A library that brings higher level programming to C

#20

Post by loeg »

jacquesm wrote: post #16
EnFinlay wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people who aren't professionally familiar with C or C++ it's an easy mistake to make considering how often things refer to "C/C++" like they are a single skill. Example: https://sjobs.brassring.com/TGWebHost/jobdetails.aspx?jobId=...

Once upon a time there was this thing called 'cfront'. Cfront took C++ and turned it into C which you then fed through your compiler. At that time mixing C and C++ was trivial, especially because C++ was still quite simple and the C compiler was the target. But after that things got more complicated. C evolved, several times in fact since that time and the C++ standard evolved as well. Leading to the impression that…

It would be relatively easy for C++ to add some kinds of C compatibility, and they just haven't bothered to. (E.g., the "static" keyword for parameter array sizes.) It's a little annoying for shared headers that have to be used in C and C++ programs.
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